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Dragons of Generation 5
- Thread starter Aerrow
- Start date
I'm agreeing with you here, Erazor. With the massive base stats of the new Pokemon of Generation 5, the tiers are probably going to be a lot more stronger in terms of the strength of the Pokemon which reside in them.
Well, it's a double edged sword.
It rids the dragon of its ice weakness, though it adds vulnerability to rock and fighting.
And it becomes neutral to fire.
On top of that, STAB Ice is never a bad thing, especially in the uber tier. Lugia running Ice Beam over STAB is a perfect example of how good Ice is in ubers when it comes to offense.
Add to that, that rock and fighting are fairly uncommon as STAB in ubers. Yes, Dragon/Ice is good typing from an uber point of view.
Groudon and Garchomp will still ruin it with Stone Edge, but STAB Ice will ruin them as well.
On top of that, Garchomp can only revenge kill, because with that kind of power(130 base (special) attack), it probably won't survive a dragon attack.
And if it does attempt to revenge kill, steels can set up on it because they resist dragon and rock.
Aura Sphere might be a problem, but that's where the Ghosts and Psychics from ubers come into play.
There's some nice synergy there.
I'd say it's pretty good typing.
I might be overlooking something crucial, though.
Why CB it when you can just Choice scarf it instead for much better results.
@Iceeyez- Ono maybe over hyped and all, and probably can't outclass mence or chomp( which it shouldn't since it's not like either one of them), but it can sure as hell outclass other DD'ers. It's mono-typing is defensive enough to keep it going, and still dominate. Your also forgetting that it carries powerful enough stats to do more then enough necessary damage. And if were going to mention speed her then your forgetting another dragon that'll probably see mention again: Latias. But outside of the Prime three (Chomp, Latias, Mence) he can outspeed a good bit of ubers, as well as a majority of OU. With 147 atk stat, he's only 3 pts away from hitting the same stat as Rayquaza, making him, essentially, a physical Ray. And if anything, Mence wasn't very bulky itself, and could get dominated just as easily as Ono running it's offensive DD set.
He's definitely a little frail, but not a glass cannon. In fact, is HP stat is above average at most, or atleast average with other pokes wishing they could have more HP. Don't rule this dragon out at all, especially since Black and white just hit. In fact, as it seems, his only checks so far seem to be CB chomp, and Scizor.
Ice-eyes
Simper Fi
Ice and Dragon have totally redundant coverage together. Lugia runs Ice Beam specifically to hit Dragons. All you get is an (admittedly useful) Ice neutrality; that, however, comes at the cost of being weak to Rock - and consequently SR - as well as Steel(!) and Fighting. Losing the resistance to Fire really sucks too.
Ononokusu is simply a worse DDer than Mence. It has worse resistances, less bulk and lower speed. It also can't Fire Blast its way through Steels. Its small and usually insignificant Attack advantage is the only real reason to use it as a DDer, and every other set is outclassed by Garchomp.
Ononokusu is simply a worse DDer than Mence. It has worse resistances, less bulk and lower speed. It also can't Fire Blast its way through Steels. Its small and usually insignificant Attack advantage is the only real reason to use it as a DDer, and every other set is outclassed by Garchomp.
Why would you slap a Choice Scarf on it? Considering most people are hyping DD, I rather guarantee a revenge kill with ScarfChomp or something. Ononokusu has the stats of a wall breaker and shouldn't staying in for lengthy amounts of time anyways.
DD Ononokusu is easily revenge killed.
SD Ononokusu is an inferior Garchomp
CS is really retarded considering most people will use DD and you can't even guarantee a revenge kill.
To me, CB seems like the best choice. It hits like a truck and doesn't need to set up. I think it plays the way Ononokusu should be played (looking at its stats) as a stall breaker. If it had 3 more base speed, I would use it as a DDer.
While that's true, the ability to hit Groudon, a major offensive threat in ubers, and Lugia, a good wall for super effective damage with STAB just seems very very very useful.
Ice also has the ability to hit Skarmory for neutral damage, something that plagues dragons who don't run fire or electric type moves, like most Garchomps and mono-dragon Latias(refresh in favor of Thunder)
It's still stopped by Forretress and Metagross, but that's where ground attacks become useful again. I don't know if it gets one, but I assume it does.
Considering this particular pokemon could function very well as a wall breaker. That additional coverage Ice brings over Dragon can definitely be useful in a team struggling with Groudon, Steels and Lugia.
It's not the best type combination, but it's by far not the worst either.
It's good enough, imo.
Still, we need to see how the uber tier ends up before we can clearly state this is bad or good type combination.
I really wouldn't rule it out as redundant.
So, should this Pokemon drop the Dragon moves? You could say Ice, but why ever waste Ice STAB?
You keep comparing Ono to mence, when he is in no way shape or form similar to mence (neither chomp either). He's a completely different dragon that'll play differently( if not by a small margin) from chomp, and mence. He shouldn't be compared to them, but it's obvious that they still have some advantages over him. But in a conversly manner, they still have their weakness that hold them back, so why woudl you try and shun the fact that, regardless, he is a powerhouse?
The only new gen dragons that are close to mixed mence are Sazando, and Kyuremi. The only physically based dragon that can even get close to chomps stats are Ono. With that, Ono can't even be classified under a similar type of dragon as chomp because he has a totally different aspect to his playstyle probably. Comparing any other physical DD'ers, bar TTar, will get swamped by Ono, so in no way shape or form is this thing to be "outclassed" by anyone, because it's in an entirely different league.
@Orly- I dont see it being a stall breaker when even in that set it can be outclassed by others, coming from a similar perspective as your previous post. That essentially makes even CB look useless for it then.
The only new gen dragons that are close to mixed mence are Sazando, and Kyuremi. The only physically based dragon that can even get close to chomps stats are Ono. With that, Ono can't even be classified under a similar type of dragon as chomp because he has a totally different aspect to his playstyle probably. Comparing any other physical DD'ers, bar TTar, will get swamped by Ono, so in no way shape or form is this thing to be "outclassed" by anyone, because it's in an entirely different league.
@Orly- I dont see it being a stall breaker when even in that set it can be outclassed by others, coming from a similar perspective as your previous post. That essentially makes even CB look useless for it then.
Because Ice is the best attacking type in Ubers?
LOLOL. Weakness? Garchomp has more bulk than Swampert, a great offensive and defensive typing, and an exceedingly important speed stat. SD Ononokusu is pretty much the same thing as SD Chomp but worse. You lack bulk, an awesome STAB combination, and great speed stat. Choice Scarf is the same story. Dragon Dance is pretty much inferior to Salamence. Sure, it has Mold Breaker, but Salamence has an exceedingly important BP, unpredictability, and Earthquake Spiral. It can sweep, smash walls, and even tank.
I'm agreeing with this and at the same time, I'm not. You guys are forgetting a key factor; the TM moves, etc have not been released yet so its almost impossible to say "this is better than this". Also, you're seriously underestimating Kyuremi; this is just like Deoxys-S all over again; it wasn't really hyped but in the end it became one of the best leads in the Uber metagame.
Ice-eyes
Simper Fi
Mence and Chomp are very similar to Ononokusu. All three can boost their stats and lay waste to the opponent with powerful Outrages and Fire Blasts off very high Attack stats.
Versus Garchomp (SD / CB / CS sets), Ononokusu can Earthquake Bronzong and Rotom. It has a slightly higher Attack stat that is mostly overkill. It's also not quad-weak to Ice, which admittedly is nice. However, it's much frailer and doesn't resist Rock or Sandstorm. This makes it die a lot faster, and makes it a lot harder to set up. It's also five points slower, and a hell of a lot of important stuff sits in that range, notably Salamence, 100/100/100/100/100/100s and the Ground/Flying Genie (plus a handful of other likely top-tier pokes).
Versus Salamence (DD), Ononokusu hits a little bit harder (can I get a percentage on this?) and doesn't die to realy weak Ice Beams. It also isn't weak to Rocks. Instead, it doesn't get Intimidate, doesn't have a Ground immunity, doesn't have a Fighting resistance, and is considerably frailer. Overall Ononokusu is a LOT harder to set up. Moreover, it's slower; it can't tie with the massive group of +1 base 100s and gets beaten out by them - and Mence - before a DD.
This is just a discussion. No decisions have been made about the new metagames yet; it's way too early.
Well, if it comes to the point where Dragon/Ice is not the way to go on this guy, you can expect Ice to be the preferred choice because it has better uber coverage as it hits all Dragons, but also Groundon and Lugia super effective.
But one also has to keep in mind what way to go, physical or special.
On a physically aimed set, Dragon is more likely because Outrage is just.. outrageously powerful.
A specially aimed set however, could go for the immense power of Draco Meteor, combined with Ice Beam over Dragon Pulse as the.. "reliable" attack move.
But the choices here will depend on its special move selection.
Ice-eyes
Simper Fi
From the talk in PR and the details of the new pokemon, it seems likely that Salamence, Garchomp, Latias and possibly Shaymin-S will be unbanned for the beginning of Gen V - if they are found to be broken still, so be it.
Ice vs. Dragon depends on the coverage moves it has. Ice doesn't hit Kyogre or Reshiram nearly as hard, remember.
Ice vs. Dragon depends on the coverage moves it has. Ice doesn't hit Kyogre or Reshiram nearly as hard, remember.
You're forgeting one key point though; Kyuremu has abase 130 stat in both offensive stats so it can also be used with a mixed set.