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Dragons of Generation 5
- Thread starter Aerrow
- Start date
If mence, and chomp were so similar to Ono then all of there other various sets wouldn't seem so dominating.
As far as chomp goes: Most of what you said showed that it's outclassed by chomp, and shouldn't be compared to him, not even in the least bit (even if he can DD, Outrage, and what not). Compared to chomp, yes, it is seriously outclassed.
As far as Mence goes: I would calc it up, but im too lazy at this point. Im sure it'll only factor in from maybe 10-15% depending on it's nature. It is indeed frailer then mence, but it's frailty isn't look others. At most, its average. Yes it is definitely slower (as it is to chomp, and Latias), but compared to other DD'ers it is marginly faster, and stronger. No it can't tie with the base 100+'s, but it can conversly get the job done in the lower tier by far.
My point is, your still comparing it to mence and chomp when your entire post just now showed that it shouldn't be placed in the same analysis as them (let alone latias as well). If anything, I care more about mences placement then any of the dragons, but dont rule Ono out when it comes to being a powerful dragon.
Yes, we are probably going to put all of the pokemon (including Gen 4 Ubers) together, and playtest them to see which ones are overpowered. If they are found to be too powerful, then they will be sent to Uber, but not before then.
That's completely true. But really, without its TM moves known, it's just not possible to see whether it will run Dragon/Ice or only Dragon or Ice.
Because this mostly depends on whether the alternatives are good enough to give up the STAB.
One also has to keep in mind that Kyogre resists Fire Blast and Ice Beam, so if it doesn't get Thunder, you'll want a Dragon move to reliably KO it.
It does look to me that this will be the "grey" version mascot. Although I am curious to see if this could raise abomosnow's usage. Bit of a gimmack I know but the ice/dragon would have the most powerful blizzard in the game (joint with Glaceon) however ice beam may be powerful enough to KO the other dragons anyway.
I think you have it backwards. Most people are hyping this thing to a ridiculous degree. People are like, "It's the next uber!!!!!!!" Sure, it has that great attack stat, but when it utilizes stat boosting moves, it's more than likely inferior to Garchomp and Salamence. Let's compare base stats.
Garchomp: 108 / 130 / 95 / 80 / 85 / 102
Salamence: 95 / 135 / 80 / 110 / 80 / 100
Ononokusu: 76 / 147 / 90 / 60 / 70 / 97
That 97 base speed sucks. It needs 100 to be truly a great sweeper. It is too easily revenge killed by many threats. It lacks the bulk of Garchomp and the higher special attack of Salamence (which gives it a lot more unpredictability).
@ Upstart
Too fucking bad no one knows what it learns. It more than likely won't be able to learn Fire Punch so stop making stupid conclusions and use some solid reasoning why it's so great. Guess what, Salamence can OHKO Skarmory with Fire Blast (provided that it can still learn it).
Ice-eyes
Simper Fi
Basically, 'you shouldn't compare them because Ono is clearly worse but since you can't compare them it's still powerful'? Basically the point of the comparison was to probe that Ono is worse than Mence and Chomp, which it is. Unless they're banned it's likely to find its way into BL.
I'm just going to calculate the percentage difference in their output.
Why don't you do the same, then?
You're making "stupid conclusions" based solely on its shaky 97 speed.
Who ever thought Ono was instant-Uber material isn't a very intelligent person in the first place.
And as your post states, and simply verifies my point this entire time, Ono shouldn't be classed at all in comparison to Chomp, and mence.
Not trying to overhype either, but the little devil is still strong, nuntheless. He should not be taken lighty and should not be compared to chomp or mence as an "inferior" version of them.
If you aren't understanding that comparison then you obviously still aren't getting the point.
No- it isn't a Mence, or Chomp. Compared to them it is outlassed.
Yes- Compared to OTHER DD'ers, and the like, he is still powerful.
Say hello to ScarfRachi, ScarfSazando, and many others. Speed is the most important stat in Pokemon. Also, compare it to Garchomp. Garchomp is a way better SDer because of its bulk (which is greater than that of Swampert) , its typing (both offensively and defensively), and its exceedingly important base speed.
Salamence is a better DDer than Ononokusu because it hits an exceedingly important base speed (possibly the most competitive speed tier). Salamence also has a great special attack stat too, aiding to its unpredictability. Salamence can go physical, special, or mixed very easily. It can play many different roles too. It can be a sweeper, a wall breaker, a revenge killer, and even a tank.
Terrible reasoning, am I right. Completely based on that speed stat.
I agree with you, Ononokusu is very strong, but a lot of people are way over estimating its potential.
So just because they'll be in the same tier your stating that the comparison is still viable? That's basically saying that you can still compare Mence, and Dragonite if they were in the same tier. Even though they were at one point, it's pretty obvious that neither one are alike in anyway.
Yes, because if it gets Extremespeed and/or Superpower, or god forbid Close Combat, all of a sudden, your reasoning is completely pointless because it functions more like Dragonite.
Where is its movepool anyway? Including move tutors. I can't find it.
While Ononokusu is apparently not as good compared to other dragons, you seriously shouldn't underestimate it. Attack that makes Rhyperior jealous shouldn't be pushed aside as 'inferior'.
We already know that it learns Dragon Dance, Swords Dance and Outrage through Level-up, so that's a pretty fearsome start already. Nearly anything with a bit of girth learns Earthquake, so I'd assume he does too. Anything to do with fists or claws would be easily in his movepool, considering he has noticeable hands and claws.
If you're not prepared for something like Porygon-Z or Alakazam, they can possibly rip your team to shreds. Ononokusu is just like that, but even more so. Being able to 2HKO every non-steel in the game with Outrage is not to be underestimated.
We already know that it learns Dragon Dance, Swords Dance and Outrage through Level-up, so that's a pretty fearsome start already. Nearly anything with a bit of girth learns Earthquake, so I'd assume he does too. Anything to do with fists or claws would be easily in his movepool, considering he has noticeable hands and claws.
If you're not prepared for something like Porygon-Z or Alakazam, they can possibly rip your team to shreds. Ononokusu is just like that, but even more so. Being able to 2HKO every non-steel in the game with Outrage is not to be underestimated.
You are guilty of the same thing you're accusing others of.
It's just that you're taking the opposite opinion that it won't be very good.
My (correct) position is that it is too early to make either statement since we don't know the full learnset.
For example, in the unlikely scenario that Ononokusu did learn a powerful priority move the whole point about being outsped by quad weak Dragons would be a lot less relevant.
On a sweeper, 147Atk, 97Spe, two great stat boosting moves and Dragon STAB are fine gifts indeed; many make do with less.
The Pokemon that are being said to "outclass" Ononokusu given our PRELIMINARY information are the absolute cream of the crop that have been banned to Ubers by Smogon.
Doesn't sound like a bad Pokemon to me....
I don't know where to find its complete move pool. Move pool isn't really a good argument yet, since there are few sources that have that information. We still don't know Egg Moves, tutor moves, etc. This is the only move pool source I know of currently.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78983
@ deluge
Didn't bother to read more did you?
@ Lucindril
I never said it wasn't a threat. I said it's massively over hyped and not as good as Chomp and Mence when you compare Ononokusu to them.
I messed up the calcs for Sazando against Shanderaa, if anyone cares. Dark Pulse and Crunch need LO + boosting nature to always OHKO after SR, and Dark Pulse will be affected by CM, requiring 2 hits to KO it. But taking into consideration that Shanderaa will probably have a sub up as the pokemon with Shed Shell switches out, both Dark Pulse and Crunch can comfortably OHKO without a boosting nature or LO after Substitute + SR, so Sazando can run Timid or Jolly without ruining its ability to check Shanderaa.
Lol, Ice. I can't tell if your being serious or what. T.T;
Either way, Ono isn't a mence. Ono isn't a chomp. Ono is just an Ono. And if anything, well more then likely be a threat(even if it has to be in the same tiering as mence and the likes). It's moveset will determine alot for it as well (as will most of the new pokes).
Either way, Ono isn't a mence. Ono isn't a chomp. Ono is just an Ono. And if anything, well more then likely be a threat(even if it has to be in the same tiering as mence and the likes). It's moveset will determine alot for it as well (as will most of the new pokes).
Can Ono OHKO a 252/252 HP/Def Blissey with Earthquake then?
Regardless, it feels kind of pointless to argue over which is best.
Scizor, Tyranitar and Weavile are all usable as pursuiters, but eventhough both Weavile and Scizor are arguably worse at it than Tyranitar. They're still used as such.