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Base Stats of New Pokemon
- Thread starter yiran
- Start date
Gamefreak surprises me to no end... they gave Denchura base 107 speed. And they gave Ariados only base 40 speed. Wth? They are both spiders.
Well sometimes it doesn't have to do with looks...apparently it can.
We'll have to wait and see about the Steal/Bug, true the HP stat is low though.
But he's an ELECTRIC spider. It's like motherfucking steroids. When was the last time you zapped your spider?
Also, speaking of him... Kinda disappointed about the stats, but I guess it's the best we could've hoped for. 91% accuracy Thunder is so delicious...
I've always thought speed was the stat that seemed to match the way pokemon look the least. To me, Wigglytuff looks like it should be just as fast as Miltank, yet Miltank is more than twice as fast. And why is Jolteon twice as fast as Vaporeon?
I don't think so. The ghost/water type makes an insanely good partner to the infamous skarmbliss combination, hell, you can even get away with replacing skarmory with the new grass/steel and it would probably work great, but a ground immunity seems great.
I mean sure, between Sazando, Ononokusu, Garchomp, Salamence and Kingdra there's going to be a dragon for every team probably, hell, they're a great way to counter each other, gamefreak even hilariously gave Sazando one more base speed than Ononokusu, and give Ononokusu pisspoor Sp.Def.
Steel types are going to have to watch out for things like Shanderaa, that massive bug/fire pokemon and the relentless slew of fighting types. :/
People are hyping this up to be super offensive but I just see danger around every corner. Meaning you're going to have to play it very safe. Nothing is uncounterable.
I mean sure, between Sazando, Ononokusu, Garchomp, Salamence and Kingdra there's going to be a dragon for every team probably, hell, they're a great way to counter each other, gamefreak even hilariously gave Sazando one more base speed than Ononokusu, and give Ononokusu pisspoor Sp.Def.
Steel types are going to have to watch out for things like Shanderaa, that massive bug/fire pokemon and the relentless slew of fighting types. :/
People are hyping this up to be super offensive but I just see danger around every corner. Meaning you're going to have to play it very safe. Nothing is uncounterable.
Something just as important to the metagame is whether all of the old ubers will still be ubers and whether the old OUs will still be OUs. Could we see Manaphy, Deoxys, Garchomp, Latias and Salamence back? Could Scizor, Heatran or Tyranitar get banned?
Wouldn't "danger around every corner" imply that the metagame is hyper offensive?
Please no tier discussion. Also, please read the Policy Review forum. No tiers from Generation IV will carry over. This is a new generation.
Nah, by 'around every corner' I mean on all ends of the spectrum, defensively and offensively, you just can't be sure what's going to happen, and that's to be expected with 640 something pokemon :/
Two things:
First of all, here is the complete list (i.e. inclusive) for fully evolved BST:
Quite different from what we were used to.
Second, I wasted who knows how many hours of my life in compiling sprites, Base Stats, and BST and placed them on a large image. For those who would like to save it rather than having to visit a website just to remember who's who or who's faster than who, here it is. DO NOT POST IT ANYWHERE ELSE! I took my time doing it, you know?
Now, if you all excuse me, I'm going to bed.
First of all, here is the complete list (i.e. inclusive) for fully evolved BST:
Code:
01) 720 - Arceus
02) 685 - Reshiram, Zekrom
03) 680 - Mewtwo, Lugia, Ho-Oh, Rayquaza, Dialga, Palkia, Giratina (both)
04) 670 - Slaking, Kyogre, Groudon, Regigigas
05) 660 - Kyuremu
06) 600 - Dragonite, Mew, Tyranitar, Celebi, Salamence, Metagross, Lati@s, Jirachi, Deoxys (all), Garchomp, Heatran, Cresselia, Manaphy, Darkrai, Shaymin (both), Victini, Sazando, Meroetta (both), Genosekuto
07) 590 - Randorosu
08) 580 - Articuno, Zapdos, Moltres, Raikou, Entei, Suicune, Regirock, Regice, Registeel, Uxie, Mesprit, Azelf, Kobaruon, Terakion, Birijion, Torunerosu, Borutorosu, Kerudio
09) 567 - Aakeosu
10) 555 - Arcanine
11) 550 - Urugamosu
12) 545 - Togekiss
13) 540 - Gyarados, Snorlax, Kingdra, Blissey, Milotic, Electivire, Magmortar, Hihidaruma (Fire/Psychic), Ononokusu
14) 535 - Lapras, Crobat, Swampert, Magnezone, Rhyperior, Tangrowth, Porygon-Z, Baibanira
15) 534 - Charizard, Typhlosion, Infernape
16) 530 - Blastoise, Feraligatr, Sceptile, Blaziken, Aggron, Walrein, Empoleon, Mamoswine
17) 528 - Jarooda, Enbuoo, Daikenki
18) 525 - Venusaur, Cloyster, Vaporeon, Jolteon, Flareon, Meganium, Espeon, Umbreon, Torterra, Lucario, Hippowdon, Leafeon, Glaceon, Probopass, Dusknoir
19) 523 - Luxray
20) 520 - Exeggutor, Starmie, Flygon, A-Rotom, Gigigiaru, Shanderaa
21) 518 - Gardevoir, Gallade
22) 515 - Tentacruel, Aerodactyl, Lickilicky, Yanmega, Shibirudon
23) 510 - Steelix, Weavile, Gliscor, Zoroark, Kojondo, Wooguru, Barujiina
24) 509 - Warubiaru
25) 508 - Doryuuzu
26) 505 - Ninetales, Machamp, Shuckle, Roserade, Honchkrow, Gigaiasu, Roopushin
27) 500 - Golduck, Poliwrath, Rapidash, Muk, Gengar, Scyther, Pinsir, Ampharos, Politoed, Scizor, Heracross, Ursaring, Houndoom, Donphan, Wailord, Claydol, Bronzong, Drapion
28) 499 - Gamageroge, Nattorei
29) 498 - Drifblim, Yanakki, Baokki, Hiyakki
30) 497 - Musharna, Zeburaika
31) 495 - Nidoqueen, Nidoking, Omastar, Kabutops, Cradily, Armaldo, Rampardos, Bastiodon, Floatzel, Mismagius, Abagoora, Shubarugo, Agirudaa
32) 494 - Abomasnow
33) 491 - Hahakomori
34) 490 - Alakazam, Slowbro, Weezing, Kangaskhan, Tauros, Slowking, Miltank, Altaria, Toxicroak, Muurando, Shinboraa, Gochiruzeru, Rankurusu, Kirikizan
35) 488 - Zuruzukin
36) 485 - Golem, Huntail, Gorebyss, Relicanth, Spiritomb, Oobemu, Tsunbeaa, Furiijio, Kurimugan
37) 484 - Kuitaran, Aianto
38) 483 - Hypno, Desukaan, Goruggo
39) 482 - Ambipom
40) 480 - Vileplume, Victreebel, Electrode, Bellossom, Octillery, Ludicolo, Shiftry, Exploud, Glalie, Lopunny, Froslass, Phione, Erufuun, Doredia, Hihidaruma (Fire), Burunkeru, Buffaron
41) 479 - Skuntank
42) 478 - Kenhorou
43) 475 - Raichu, Dewgong, Kingler, Manectric, Cacturne, Staraptor, Gastrodon, Pendoraa, Iwaparesu, Mebukijika
44) 474 - Hariyama, Vespiquen, Dasutodasu
45) 473 - Clefable, Swanna
46) 472 - Denchura
47) 471 - Maggyo
48) 470 - Xatu, Torkoal, Grumpig, Chirachiino, Mamanbou
49) 469 - Pidgeot
50) 468 - Whiscash, Crawdaunt
51) 467 - Swalot
52) 465 - Forretress, Mantine, Skarmory, Stantler, Absol, Nageki, Dageki
53) 461 - Marakacchi
54) 460 - Dodrio, Mr. Mime, Lanturn, Breloom, Sharpedo, Camerupt, Tropius, Lumineon, Basurao
55) 459 - Morobareru
56) 458 - Zangoose, Seviper
57) 456 - Ninjask
58) 455 - Primeape, Hitmonlee, Hitmonchan, Jynx, Girafarig, Hitmontop, Banette
59) 454 - Carnivine
60) 452 - Purugly
61) 450 - Sandslash, Venomoth, Seaking, Jumpluff, Granbull, Cherrim
62) 446 - Reparudasu
63) 445 - Tabunne
64) 442 - Noctowl
65) 440 - Persian, Lunatone, Solrock, Kecleon, N-Rotom
66) 438 - Arbok
67) 430 - Quagsire, Qwilfish, Swellow, Pelipper
68) 428 - Emonga
69) 425 - Wigglytuff, Marowak, Sunflora, Chimecho, Kokoromori
70) 424 - Wormadam (all), Mothim
71) 420 - Mightyena, Linoone, Castform, Miruhoggu
72) 415 - Furret, Dunsparce
73) 414 - Masquerain
74) 413 - Raticate
75) 411 - Chatot
76) 410 - Azumarill, Sudowoodo, Magcargo, Medicham, Bibarel
77) 405 - Parasect, Dugtrio, Wobbuffet, Plusle, Minun, Pachirisu
78) 400 - Volbeat, Illumise
79) 390 - Ledian, Ariados
80) 385 - Butterfree, Beedrill, Beautifly, Dustox
81) 384 - Kricketune
82) 380 - Corsola, Delcatty, Sableye, Mawile
83) 360 - Spinda
84) 352 - Farfetch'd
85) 336 - Unown
86) 330 - Delibird, Luvdisc
87) 288 - Ditto
88) 250 - Smeargle
89) 236 - ShedinjaSecond, I wasted who knows how many hours of my life in compiling sprites, Base Stats, and BST and placed them on a large image. For those who would like to save it rather than having to visit a website just to remember who's who or who's faster than who, here it is. DO NOT POST IT ANYWHERE ELSE! I took my time doing it, you know?
Now, if you all excuse me, I'm going to bed.
Not all Electric types are speedy; Magnezone, Lanturn, Luxray and Ampharos are prime examples. Anyway, if Pokemon had feelings Illumise, Volbeat and Ariados will so hate the electric spider. The former 2 because they are rightfully Bug/Electric types, I mean they are fireflies, come on, electric spiders aren't realistic to begin with. Ariados because Denchura completely blows him out of the water stat-wise and type-wise.
I have to admit, the more I keep thinking about the Grass starter's stats, the better it sounds. Decently defensive Pokemon with solid Speed have been really rare.
101+ Speed and above Jaroda's defenses or within base 25 total under them
Pokemon: defenses, Speed
Crobat: 85/80/80, 130
Mewtwo: 106/90/90, 130
Shaymin-S: 100/75/75, 127
Darkrai: 70/90/90, 125
Arceus: 120/120/120, 120
Raikou: 90/75/100, 115
Jaroda: 75/95/95, 113
Latias: 80/90/130, 110
Latios: 80/80/110, 110
Lugia: 106/130/154, 110
Tauros: 75/95/70, 110
Birijion: 91/72/129, 108
Kerudio: 91/90/90, 108
Kobaruon: 91/129/72, 108
Terakion: 91/90/90, 108
Garchomp: 108/95/85, 102
Randarosu: 79/90/80, 101
101+ Speed and above Jaroda's defenses or within base 35 total under them
Deoxys-S: 50/90/90, 180
Starmie: 60/85/85, 115
Jumpluff: 75/70/85, 110
Scyther: 70/80/80, 105
I've bolded what I think are the important comparisons. It's really going to boil down to movepool. If it learns Calm Mind, it can play an offensively-weaker Raikou; if it learns Sleep Powder it can be like pre-Platinum fourth-gen Hypnosis Crobat; if it gets Substitute and Leech Seed, it can play like a faster Jumpluff that doesn't lose to Stealth Rock--or, in a comparison that makes it sound better, like a Sceptile that isn't afraid of switching in on neutral physical attacks.
If it learns Reflect, Light Screen, and Synthesis then it can be like a support Starmie that isn't scared of Pursuit. Starmie's not considered a frail Pokemon despite 15 less HP and 10 less in each defense stat, so that's a very nice starting point to work from.
Base 113 Speed with a boosting nature and 0 EVs hits 288 Speed, which is only one point short of tying neutral-nature base 95s with 252 in Speed. That also means it's very close to our 97 and 98 Dragons, but I do tend to think they would run Speed+ at risk of taking huge damage from lower speed tiers like Lucario, Heracross, or Kingdra otherwise, or even status conditions from max-Speed Rotom or Roserade or whatever.
Also, a Warubiaru (92 Speed) that goes Adamant over Jolly is going to get hit or statused (or whatever Jaroda can do) every time by this starter because of the Speed disadvantage, so there's that.
101+ Speed and above Jaroda's defenses or within base 25 total under them
Pokemon: defenses, Speed
Crobat: 85/80/80, 130
Mewtwo: 106/90/90, 130
Shaymin-S: 100/75/75, 127
Darkrai: 70/90/90, 125
Arceus: 120/120/120, 120
Raikou: 90/75/100, 115
Jaroda: 75/95/95, 113
Latias: 80/90/130, 110
Latios: 80/80/110, 110
Lugia: 106/130/154, 110
Tauros: 75/95/70, 110
Birijion: 91/72/129, 108
Kerudio: 91/90/90, 108
Kobaruon: 91/129/72, 108
Terakion: 91/90/90, 108
Garchomp: 108/95/85, 102
Randarosu: 79/90/80, 101
101+ Speed and above Jaroda's defenses or within base 35 total under them
Deoxys-S: 50/90/90, 180
Starmie: 60/85/85, 115
Jumpluff: 75/70/85, 110
Scyther: 70/80/80, 105
I've bolded what I think are the important comparisons. It's really going to boil down to movepool. If it learns Calm Mind, it can play an offensively-weaker Raikou; if it learns Sleep Powder it can be like pre-Platinum fourth-gen Hypnosis Crobat; if it gets Substitute and Leech Seed, it can play like a faster Jumpluff that doesn't lose to Stealth Rock--or, in a comparison that makes it sound better, like a Sceptile that isn't afraid of switching in on neutral physical attacks.
If it learns Reflect, Light Screen, and Synthesis then it can be like a support Starmie that isn't scared of Pursuit. Starmie's not considered a frail Pokemon despite 15 less HP and 10 less in each defense stat, so that's a very nice starting point to work from.
Base 113 Speed with a boosting nature and 0 EVs hits 288 Speed, which is only one point short of tying neutral-nature base 95s with 252 in Speed. That also means it's very close to our 97 and 98 Dragons, but I do tend to think they would run Speed+ at risk of taking huge damage from lower speed tiers like Lucario, Heracross, or Kingdra otherwise, or even status conditions from max-Speed Rotom or Roserade or whatever.
Also, a Warubiaru (92 Speed) that goes Adamant over Jolly is going to get hit or statused (or whatever Jaroda can do) every time by this starter because of the Speed disadvantage, so there's that.
<Insert obligatory Ononokusu/Doryuuzu is Insane comment>
So, with all these new ridiculously powerful dragons hovering around base 100 speed (including Mence) it's looking more and more like Garchomp is (still) the King of Dragons, mainly thanks to the 102 Speed. Having a Scarf-Chomp with all these Dragon Dancers and Sandstorm abusers looks like it will be an amazing revenge killer for essentially all these Dragons, Dragon Dancers and a variety of other threats.
I really don't know why people are saying Ononokusu is overrated, and what's this crap about needing fire moves and crippling inability to go mixed? Chomp never needed to go mixed, and still ripped everything apart. Ononokusu, however, has:
17 higher Base Atk
Dragon Dance
No exploitable 4x Weakness
Mold Breaker, to kill Bronzong (doesn't seem good for much else though offensively)
Rivalry, which is sorely overlooked as an ability in general imo, considering almost no one changes genders. Sucks about losing to Blissey though lol.
I'm not saying Ononokusu is better or anything, in fact I'd say Garchomp is still probably the superior Dragon, with great bulk, higher speed, and STAB Earthquake, I'm just saying the two are fairly comparable. All Garchomp needed really was SD, Outrage, and E-Quake, with Fire Fang solely for Skarm and Zong, and that's really all Ononokusu will likely need for a DD set too. No fire blast needed. Which leads back to m
So, with all these new ridiculously powerful dragons hovering around base 100 speed (including Mence) it's looking more and more like Garchomp is (still) the King of Dragons, mainly thanks to the 102 Speed. Having a Scarf-Chomp with all these Dragon Dancers and Sandstorm abusers looks like it will be an amazing revenge killer for essentially all these Dragons, Dragon Dancers and a variety of other threats.
I really don't know why people are saying Ononokusu is overrated, and what's this crap about needing fire moves and crippling inability to go mixed? Chomp never needed to go mixed, and still ripped everything apart. Ononokusu, however, has:
17 higher Base Atk
Dragon Dance
No exploitable 4x Weakness
Mold Breaker, to kill Bronzong (doesn't seem good for much else though offensively)
Rivalry, which is sorely overlooked as an ability in general imo, considering almost no one changes genders. Sucks about losing to Blissey though lol.
I'm not saying Ononokusu is better or anything, in fact I'd say Garchomp is still probably the superior Dragon, with great bulk, higher speed, and STAB Earthquake, I'm just saying the two are fairly comparable. All Garchomp needed really was SD, Outrage, and E-Quake, with Fire Fang solely for Skarm and Zong, and that's really all Ononokusu will likely need for a DD set too. No fire blast needed. Which leads back to m
Hi, I'm a long-time lurker, first message etc
I can't help but wonder if Game Freak tried to balance this game on team battles (or, to be more specific, triple battles). While I haven't played Pokemon competitively since 3rd gen (I disliked the over-emphasis on sweepers in 4th gen), from what I have seen of BW so far, the metagame would likely be less streamlined and I daresay more balanced in triple or double battles. After all, we have combo moves, a lot more support abilities and moves and a number of pokemon who, with appropriate support, would probably become far more useful than they already are.
I'm not going to attempt to run numbers or present evidence until I know more about movepools and what abilities actually do etc, but it might be worth giving multi-battles another shot this gen. I don't know about you guys (nor could I), but I'd prefer to have a lot of viable pokemon and some actual variety in my matches rather than a very streamlined, sweeper-oriented 1v1 metagame (which this gen may turn out to be, if the base stats are any indication).
I can't help but wonder if Game Freak tried to balance this game on team battles (or, to be more specific, triple battles). While I haven't played Pokemon competitively since 3rd gen (I disliked the over-emphasis on sweepers in 4th gen), from what I have seen of BW so far, the metagame would likely be less streamlined and I daresay more balanced in triple or double battles. After all, we have combo moves, a lot more support abilities and moves and a number of pokemon who, with appropriate support, would probably become far more useful than they already are.
I'm not going to attempt to run numbers or present evidence until I know more about movepools and what abilities actually do etc, but it might be worth giving multi-battles another shot this gen. I don't know about you guys (nor could I), but I'd prefer to have a lot of viable pokemon and some actual variety in my matches rather than a very streamlined, sweeper-oriented 1v1 metagame (which this gen may turn out to be, if the base stats are any indication).
I'll admit, if the grass starter somehow got Sleep Powder, Leech Seed, and Substitute, then I'll give it credit due as a far more annoying Pokemon than Jumpluff (though even that's debatable unless it could have access to Encore as well). Otherwise I just don't know...Grass isn't that super great of a defensive type, and hell, the Pokemon itself is pretty damn ugly to look at; whereas its basic and stage 1 forms look decent, its stage 2 form is rather bleh imo.
YOU SIR ARE A GOD. Thanks for this and I hope you get some well-deserved rest! :)
Yes I'd have to agree, you can get away with some crazy things in doubles battles, but in singles it's all about Speed, Power, and or super high defenses.
The more I think about it, the more I like that Normal/Psychic legend. 128/128 on Special stats is pretty sick, but think about this for a moment, what if it has even HALF of Gardevoir's movepool combined with the movepool of a Generic Normal? It would be able to support OR lay the smackdown using special attacks, and with that sickening special bulk (100 base HP is nothing to scoff at either, and its defense is...adequate) it can take hits and support the team pretty well. 90 speed works well too. Given the fact that it has only 2 weaknesses (Tho granted, UTurn and Pursuit are nasty), I can see it being a viable wall/attacker/tank.
That Fighting forme might be more powerful offensively (Running off 128 speed and ATK = Scary) but his defenses are on the low side.
That Fighting forme might be more powerful offensively (Running off 128 speed and ATK = Scary) but his defenses are on the low side.
I'm trying to make sense of the starters' roles based on their typings. Early on, we could infer that Tsutaaja was meant to be the frail, speedy type and that Pokabu was meant to be the bulkier, slower Pokemon.
Now that we have the BSTs for their final evos--with Jaroda having 75/95/95 defenses and Enbuoo having 110/65/65 defenses--doesn't that actually make Jaroda the tankier Poke (disregarding typing) in the end? Just want to confirm, so I'll know if I'm completely crazy or not.
I suppose running damage calcs would answer this question, but I have yet to find a program that'll let you input BSTs instead of picking from existing Pokemon (and/or I don't yet know how to modify one to let me do so).
Now that we have the BSTs for their final evos--with Jaroda having 75/95/95 defenses and Enbuoo having 110/65/65 defenses--doesn't that actually make Jaroda the tankier Poke (disregarding typing) in the end? Just want to confirm, so I'll know if I'm completely crazy or not.
I suppose running damage calcs would answer this question, but I have yet to find a program that'll let you input BSTs instead of picking from existing Pokemon (and/or I don't yet know how to modify one to let me do so).