Defensive Threats (Just how offensive will the metagame be?)

[Not Scicky]

I WANT MY MUMMY!

Looking at the generation 5 metagame is, well, a frightening experience. At firstglance it seems that we've been plagued by endless sweepers, that stall has no hope! We're all doomed at the hands of Doryuuzu and Sandstorm teams! And I admit, they're scary. All the one's listed above have 1 stat equal to or greater than Salamence's attack. But the metagame can't be that simple can it?

There are still some things that the above pokemon are going to have to watchout for, if you thought ghost was good defensively before, there are plentynew powerful ghost pokemon! Even one with 100/70/105 defenses! And themighty Desukan of course.

Steel has some new toys to play with this generation. Including thefirst Steel type (bar dialga) to resist water and electric attacks, the Grass/Steeltype, Nattorei.

Older pokemon have alot of toys to play with defensively, and it's not safeto count older threats out. Venusaur now has chlorophyll which under the sun allows it to be an extremely potent Subseeder, with access to moveslike Sleep Powder and an upgraded Giga Drain or synthesis. But the defensive assets that are brought on by weather don't end there. Wishvaporeon can step aside now that Vaporeon get's Hydration.

The Rotom formes now have exclusive typing's to their names meaning new types in Electric/Ice, Electric/Fire and Electric/Grass, the most solid overall being Electric/Fire (2 weaknesses, 7 resistances) and Electric/Water (1 weakness, 5 resistances and great offense in rain).

That's obviously not all this generation has in store. Fire/Psychic type Hihidaruma's alternate forme has a whopping 5 weaknesses, but 6 resistances including Fire, Fighting and Ice! Along with whopping (and I mean whopping) 105/105/105 defenses, I can't be sure it'll be easy to OHKO even with super effective attacks. (Backed by 140 Sp.Atk, that's scary, but no way to break special walls)

So despite all the massive offensive stats, I don't think everything's going to be dying in 5 seconds. What about you guys?

Edit:

Potential Threats:

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Gliscor:
Gliscor is a highly sought pokemon in today's metagame due to fantastic 125 base defense and 2 very useful immunities, coupled with a resistance to fighting. However in Gen V Gliscor has obtained a new ability which see's him as a potent foe to face in stall, with a respectable attack stat capable of denting many pokemon and an ability that see's his HP constantly rise while making him immune to Toxic and (if Toxic-Orb/Black Sludge are still around) any other status. Gliscor packs a handy bug resistance too!

Vaporeon:
With the advent of Drizzletoed and Droughttails we've got a whole new metagame to expect, and Hydration Vaporeon will absolutely love to ride that wave. First of all, there are only 3 non-uber water pokemon with higher SpAtk than Vaporeon (bar Kerudio), which means it's Hydro Pump in the rain is going to absolutely kill. Combined with the ability to heal all of it's HP in a single turn, and completely laugh off Toxic, Will-o-Wisp and any other status. Vaporeon was sturdy before, but it's certainly got a boost this time around. (But who hasn't?)

Venusaur:
Venusaur is a pokemon no-one would've expected to see here, but here it is. 80/80/100 defenses aren't bad and resistances to water, electric and fighting are nice to have. However, Venusaur's greatest aspect is his dream world ability, clorophyll, which doubles his decent base 80 speed, giving him an unstoppable leech seed and making him one of the fastest sleepers in the game. (Possibly the fastest)

#494
Base 100 in all stats
New Ability
No known defensive moves on level up

#518
Like Cress… but cuter? (No Levitate)
Has Yawn, Moonlight, Calm Mind, and some unknown attacks through level up

#526
Benefits from new Sturdy
Great Defense and plenty of Attack
Gets Stealth Rock and EXPLOSION

#531
New Abilities (It their bad, this is done.)
No known healing moves through level up

#534
Decent Defense to complement its Attack
Pure Fighting = Useful resistance to Bug and Dark

#538
Like #534, but overall Bulkier with a (less useful?) ability
Has Seismic Toss and Body Slam

#555 (Daruma Mode)
Lots of weaknesses but resistances as well
Signature ability
Can wall on either spectrum but will probably be forced to specialize due to typing
Only defensive level up option is Taunt

#558
Good defensive typing with it's stats
Has Stealth Rock
Decent Attack with a level up pool to support it

#560 (Reverse Fisjal Gecko)
Shed Skin is welcome
Resistance to Rock, Ghost, and Dark. Immune to Physic
Can wall either or potentially both offenses with his typing
not a lot of defensive options from level up

#563
Ability helps in countering physical attackers who rely on their ability
Some of the best defenses this gen. Can wall either end or potentially both.
Great support level up pool including (the much needed) Haze, Night Shade, Will-o-Wisp, Grudge, and Destiny Bond

#565
Solid Rock helps its weaknesses a bit. Switching into Earthquake is no problem.
Decent support level up pool as well as Curse + Aqua Jet

#576 (Goth Lolimon)
Potentially decent special wall. If not…
Shadow Tag! Combined with access to Fake Tears, Flatter, Charm, Embargo, Heal Block, and Tickle, she make Wobb feel inadequate in some ways (though she's defiantly not Uber martial imo)

#579 (Embreomon)
Sub-par stats to other potential walls. (Probable use in a lower tier.)
Magic Guard helps
Lots of support and healing options. Recover, Screens, Charm, Pain Split, heal Block, and potentially useful Skill Swap

#589
NINE resistances, Poison immunity, ONE weakness.
His stats almost make him impenetrable with everything mentioned above.
Not too much in the way of a defensive level up pool, but he does have Iron Head to abuse a teammate with paralyze support or can sweep with Swords Dance practically for free
Btw, Shell Armor. Good Game.

#591(Poke-Shrooms)
Poor Stats (for OU consideration) and an unreliable ability
Shares the room with other Grass/Poision types
Has Ingrain. If Baton Pass is included somehow BP chains will have more variety at least

#593
Water/Ghost gives some handy resistances and immunities, but certain attacks will rip through that Defense
Decent support level up pool including Night Shade and Recover. Hopefully gets Boiling Water.

#594(What Luvdisc wanted to be)
High HP but not much else. Potentially outclassed by Milotic as far as pure defense goes.
New Ability, Wish, Healing Wish, and Aqua Jet give something to differentiate himself from other Bulky Water-types

#598
Sorry Bug Knight, you just got trumped (sort of). TEN resistances, Poison immunity, and two weaknesses.
Great defensive stats and a usable attack stat.
New ability (Iron Barbs) might have something to do with the Sticky Barb item since it holds them in the wild.
No Rapid Spin (Level Up). Ouch.
Has access to Curse, Gyro Ball, Ingrain, Explosion, Payback, and Power Whip

#601(METAL GEAR)
Clear Body is a saved him from Plus/Minus
Again with the resistance trumping! ELEVEN resistances and 3 Weaknesses. Mawile had this too but lacked the defenses to match.
So far, no known true defense options for our Gear friend. Being genderless also means no egg moves.
Awkwardly high speed and attack (not Sp.Attk)

#606
New ability and ok defenses. May not be suitable for OU.
Many support options. Heal Block, Calm Mind, Recover, and 4 unknown attacks

#609(Chandelier)
Amazing Sp.Attk alongside its decent defenses and good speed.
Support level up moves in Night Shade, Will-o-Wisp, Memento, and Pain Split.
Can switch to a more offensive mode with Shadow Ball and Overheat, which is all it needs really.
Shadow Tag makes him a potentially powerful revenge killer/trapper. Maybe too good for OU...

#615
Great special defensive stats but is hindered by the accursed pure Ice-typing.
You wanted that Rapid Spinner? Here you go!
Amazing support level up pool including Haze, Screens, Recover, and Confuse Ray.
Has enough Sp.Attk to be a good sweeper or at least do some damage.
Ground immunity. Does this mean spinning doesn't rid you of Spikes…?

#618(Um…)
Not exactly stelar base stats but good enough to warrant some use.
Five immunities are somewhat offset by 4 weaknesses to common attack types.
No solid support level up pool.

#623
Three immunities to abuse and three more resistances. Unfortunate weakness to several somewhat popular attack types
Might get Screens through TMs ect since it holds Light Clay
More offensive than defensive. Expect it to play somewhat like Machamp without the Fighting STAB?
Speaking of champ, No Guard for offensive pressure
no specific support options visible

#625
Nine resistances and two immunities. Not so hot on the special side of defenses but it's ok.
Torment, Assurance, and Embargo

#630
Honchcrow's polar opposite. A rare find to get a Flying-type with Special Defense like that. Decent speed too.
Not a lot of defensive options it seems. Lack of Roost will hurt him more than anything if it's not an egg move.

#632
Nine resistances ect. just like many other steel types this gen.
Very high speed means it could also make a potent sweeper or just a speedy wall.
Theoretically beats out #635

#637
Small number of resistances and weaknesses. x4 to rock might really hurt it.
Not many level up options for support/walling. Gets Whirlwind…
Possibly more dedicated to sweeping with its great Sp.Attk

#638
Nine resistances ect.
New ability
Not a lot of support level up options
Fast Defensive wall

#640
Six resistances. Many known for use of special attackers
Access to Giga Drain, but not much else trough level up.
New Ability
Fast Special wall

#648
Normal-typing removes Ghost and Fighting weaknesses
Great stats of special walling, high Special Attack too
Uturn and Teeter Dance for support

Thanks to RaveSage for the preliminary list.

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[DDRMaster]

Blissey is still going to be around, although since the mole is normally immune to her Status Moves and there's those Special Psychic and Fighting attacks that use the target's Def, she's certainly going to be knocked down a peg or two. There's also that item that allows you to hit Pokemon that would normally be immune to the move, which would allow Blissey to Paralyze all Ground types with Thunder Wave. (Also, I think I remember reading that Thunder Wave now ignores type match-ups, anyway.)

Edit: Also, I think the main problems Stall is going to run into are not being able to block Rapid Spin and Pokemon running Trick+Swim Goggles to instantly put a Pokemon to Sleep. That said, I still think balanced teams will work well, even with all of these offensive powerhouses.

 

[Squid Ninja]

Poison Heal Gliscor was the first thing that popped in my mind.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

Good joke there Scicky, hahaha


And you should note that the most common Gen IV Grass move, Grass Knot, does zilch to Rotom-Wash, making it virtually a no-weakness pokémon.

 

[Insularity]

...Gliscor, the new Stallrein?

It has Poison Heal now, so switch in to Toxic, and alternate Sub+Protect. 18.75% HP every turn, and decent Speed and Attack to boost. Pack a Sandstorm on the field and... well what are they gonna do?

 

[Not Scicky]

Not to mention roost. Something Walrein could only dream it had.

 

[Luf]

...Gliscor, the new Stallrein?

It has Poison Heal now, so switch in to Toxic, and alternate Sub+Protect. 18.75% HP every turn, and decent Speed and Attack to boost. Pack a Sandstorm on the field and... well what are they gonna do?

You could just use a Toxic Orb because than you get can't statused with burn or sleep and you don't have to rely on your opponent using Toxic.

 

[SlyShady]

these are definitely some potent threats. ononokusu stands out especially. 147 attack, 97 speed, and access to both swords dance and dragon dance. also: MOLD BREAKER. i'm sure it'll be one of the first non-legendaries to go to ubers.

aakeosu is also going to be a potent offensive threat. 140 attack/112 SpA/110 speed and access to agility to top it off... wow.

speaking of subseeding, i have a feeling the new grass starter will be great at it. it's reasonably bulky and pretty fast, so it's a natural for the job.

also while speaking of grasses... sceptile will be (even more of) a beast now. with unburden, i can see it using a subpetaya set to great effect.

 

[Jiggy]

Putting aside individual Pokemon, I'm really looking forward to seeing how many bulky waters learn Boiling Water, which has potential to be incredible for defense in the right hands. Lava Plume wasn't used much because nothing except Heatran could truly capitalize on it, but Water-types aren't like Fire-types defensively--and physical threats would loathe that 30% burn chance if it can be learned by enough Pokemon with the bulk to use it again and again in a single battle.

 

[Insularity]

You could just use a Toxic Orb because than you get can't statused with burn or sleep and you don't have to rely on your opponent using Toxic.

But Toxic in Gen 4 at least, is relatively common, and Leftovers gives you a bit more healing.

 

[JabbaTheGriffin]

While it's a little hard to discuss right now I know I was looking at the base stats/new typing and was noticing gamefreak definitely put more focus on the offensive end of the spectrum. But I definitely kept my eye out for Pokemon that looked like they'd turn into stall staples

Personally I found the darkdragon to look pretty solid. With "okay" 90ish hp and defenses I think his typing really stands out. Dark/Dragon with levitate is weak to fighting/bug/ice/dragon while it resists/is immune to electric/water/grass/dark/ghost/psychic/ground. That is amazing defensive typing and I think it could be reminiscent of Latias in OU: A really good offensive Pokemon and a really good defensive Pokemon.

 

[Not Scicky]

Putting aside individual Pokemon, I'm really looking forward to seeing how many bulky waters learn Boiling Water, which has potential to be incredible for defense in the right hands. Lava Plume wasn't used much because nothing except Heatran could truly capitalize on it, but Water-types aren't like Fire-types defensively--and physical threats would loathe that 30% burn chance if it can be learned by enough Pokemon with the bulk to use it again and again in a single battle.

Boiling water is a great point. But with so many having access to Curse, how viable is it? I guess the passive damage helps, and the fact that it effects your opponents pokemon permanently and curse only effects you until you switch out. I'm really hoping Lanturn get's it, he's already a massive wall on the special side and with his opponent burned he can take quite a hit.

 

[Fisherman JP]

Special Attacks that uses the target's defense? Show me, I'm scared.

Also with the claim that Thunder wave will go through ground typing, Gliscor might be switching in on that instead of Toxic. Such as Blissey, and other defensive pokemon.

 

[Luf]

But Toxic in Gen 4 at least, is relatively common, and Leftovers gives you a bit more healing.

That's like saying, why should I bother using Toxic Orb on Poison Heal Breloom. Not every single team you face will have Toxic.

 

[Insularity]

^Mmkay, see your point, 12.5% is fine enough anyway.

And, it won't be absolutely be wrekced by hail, as Walrein is by Sand.

 

[Deck Knight]

Items are also an unknown factor at this point. Without Choice Band, Life Orb, or Choice Specs, the threat of immediate power would be greatly reduced this generation. Yes, stat-boosters could still smash your walls in after Dragon Dance or Swords Dance, and I'm certain that at least the Plates will exist because of the Arceus mechanic, but none of those offer the kind of unilateral immediate offense we're accustomed to in 4th Gen.

Life Orb in particular was an augment to stat boosters, and if it is gone, consider every defensive Pokemon to be 30% more difficult to defeat.

I have also heard that Thunder Wave penetrates through Ground typing, which reduces the viability of a ton of Ground-typed threats, old and new. Ground types have always been huge offensive offenders (redundancy?) because of the immense power, accuracy, and coverage of Earthquake. This needs confirmation though, as if it's false it's a pretty epic troll.

 

[Insularity]

Items are also an unknown factor at this point. Without Choice Band, Life Orb, or Choice Specs, the threat of immediate power would be greatly reduced this generation. Yes, stat-boosters could still smash your walls in after Dragon Dance or Swords Dance, and I'm certain that at least the Plates will exist because of the Arceus mechanic, but none of those offer the kind of unilateral immediate offense we're accustomed to in 4th Gen.

Can't find any source for that, do you have a link?

 

[Tortferngatr]

Special Attacks that uses the target's defense? Show me, I'm scared.

Also with the claim that Thunder wave will go through ground typing, Gliscor might be switching in on that instead of Toxic. Such as Blissey, and other defensive pokemon.

And what is this Base 180 Fire-type move I have heard rumors of? That would certainly effect things...

And yeah, if we lose LO, that makes things much more offensively...difficult...to do.

 

[Fisherman JP]

Heard that 180 BP Physical Fire move is 95% accurate too, so WHAT'S THE DRAWBACK?

 

[Mario With Lasers]

...Gliscor, the new Stallrein?

It has Poison Heal now, so switch in to Toxic, and alternate Sub+Protect. 18.75% HP every turn, and decent Speed and Attack to boost. Pack a Sandstorm on the field and... well what are they gonna do?

Roost isn't a TM anymore, so there's a chance Poison Heal Gliscor won't have it.

 

[Yamaha]

Heard that 180 BP Physical Fire move is 95% accurate too, so WHAT'S THE DRAWBACK?

Lowers Speed, Defence, Sp.Defence after using it.

 

[some hero]

I am glad Stall is not Game Freaks' priority,it seems.

It would be better and much more fun if the metagame had no viable way to stall, games would be faster and we could get on with our lives.

No offense to anyone,but stall is really lame..That's why they don't really show stalling in the anime.

 

[Fisherman JP]

Thanks LOLMUDKIPS, and who gets this move?

 

[Killah]

Can't find any source for that, do you have a link?

link? Items can't be traded from 4th gen to 5th gen, so anything that they want to remove they can just exclude.

It also means that they can be nerfed as well, or altered in any form.

 

[EvilMario]

Losing Life Orb would make perfect sense (and maybe balance) to all these new 120-140 base attackers we have running around commonly now. Losing the Choice items, especially Scarf, would really have a huge impact as well.