Just because they can, doesn't mean they will. I mean, where that claim originated. Same with that Fire move >_>
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Defensive Threats (Just how offensive will the metagame be?)
- Thread starter Not Scicky
- Start date
Poison Heal gliscor still seems like an amazing defensive pokemon anyway, especially with immunity to ground and a heavy resistance to fighting types.
It is in literally no learnsets right now. Could it be a move tutor?
I updated the first post with some potential threats but I'll update more later, feel free to contribute but please make it in the same format as the one's in the OP, thanks! :D
Going to say niether SR nor sleep talk are availible as TMs.
Unless there are some move tutors hiding them up thier sleeves than we are playing from the tools we had in the past, the past being today's fourth gen of course.
Between that, everything weather this gen and lack of bulky pkmn to balance out the very high attacks in the game, I just cannot imagine stall tactics being viable this gen. I predict fire grass water cores carrying an extra vaporeon or suicune as surplus water just to keep up with the heavey hits.
But maybe I might be blowing it out of proportion, it is bloody late and I need some Z's.
Unless there are some move tutors hiding them up thier sleeves than we are playing from the tools we had in the past, the past being today's fourth gen of course.
Between that, everything weather this gen and lack of bulky pkmn to balance out the very high attacks in the game, I just cannot imagine stall tactics being viable this gen. I predict fire grass water cores carrying an extra vaporeon or suicune as surplus water just to keep up with the heavey hits.
But maybe I might be blowing it out of proportion, it is bloody late and I need some Z's.
Isn't there still transferring between generations? A SR suicide lead doesn't need any moves that weren't available there, so what's to stop people just migrating their Azelfs and Aerodactyls over and using those? Can't you also migrate over a Life Orb or a choice item like you could between gen 3 and 4 with Dive Balls?
On a side note, I'm liking Swords Dance + Speed Boost Blaziken. Finally, everyone's favorite Kentucky Fried Chicken has something over its retarded crack monkey cousin.
On a side note, I'm liking Swords Dance + Speed Boost Blaziken. Finally, everyone's favorite Kentucky Fried Chicken has something over its retarded crack monkey cousin.
Desukaan and the Grass/Steel are definitely going to be staples like Rotom and Forretress.
Poison Heal Gliscor will be quite good. He'll even be on more balanced teams for breaking stall, as he'll be immune to burns and the like.
Rain Dish Tentacruel may find his way onto Rain teams if Politoed stays OU. One of his issues is lack of recovery, and that patches that up slightly. I wish they did a little more to make weather defensively viable.
Poison Heal Gliscor will be quite good. He'll even be on more balanced teams for breaking stall, as he'll be immune to burns and the like.
Rain Dish Tentacruel may find his way onto Rain teams if Politoed stays OU. One of his issues is lack of recovery, and that patches that up slightly. I wish they did a little more to make weather defensively viable.
Rankurusu has passable bulk and Magic Guard, as well as an impressive movepool. As far as I can tell, he learns Calm Mind, Recover, and Psycho Shock (the 'physical-hitting' special move). Psychic, 110 HP/75 Def/125 SpA/85 SpD.
Musharna is bulkier but lacks Magic Guard. It has Moonlight instead of Recover--which might actually be a viable alternative with an accessible Drought--and some other good support moves. Musharna and Rankurusu both have access Reflect/Light Screen. Psychic, 116 HP/85 Def/107 SpA/95 SpD.
Nageki might not really have defensive potential because it lacks any kind of recovery (besides Rest), but it has access to the Fighting-type equivalent of Dragon Tail (moves last, switches opponent) and Bulk Up. Fighting, 120 HP/100 Atk/85 Def/85 SpD.
Burunkeru (the water ghost) has 100 HP/70 Def/105 SpD, with Will-O-Wisp, Recover, and Water Spout/Boiling Water as attacking options.
I know these aren't really defensive, but this gen doesn't exactly have much in the way of raw bulk or recovery moves.
Musharna is bulkier but lacks Magic Guard. It has Moonlight instead of Recover--which might actually be a viable alternative with an accessible Drought--and some other good support moves. Musharna and Rankurusu both have access Reflect/Light Screen. Psychic, 116 HP/85 Def/107 SpA/95 SpD.
Nageki might not really have defensive potential because it lacks any kind of recovery (besides Rest), but it has access to the Fighting-type equivalent of Dragon Tail (moves last, switches opponent) and Bulk Up. Fighting, 120 HP/100 Atk/85 Def/85 SpD.
Burunkeru (the water ghost) has 100 HP/70 Def/105 SpD, with Will-O-Wisp, Recover, and Water Spout/Boiling Water as attacking options.
I know these aren't really defensive, but this gen doesn't exactly have much in the way of raw bulk or recovery moves.
Items can't be migrated over.
As for Poison Heal Gliscor, it is hurt firstly by the fact that it only has poison heal recovery, and secondly by the fact that not only would rest remove the poison, but rest now has a three turn sleep instead of two from gen 4.
another potent sweeper can be that ant pokemon give it a hustle ability and wide lens and your good to go it might be risky but if it lands a hit that will do some damage! not to mention his awsome speed of 109 base.
what about Kurimugan? it has 90 base defense and special defense with a decent 77 HP and the ability rough skin. with maxed out physical defense, it can prove to be something that Physically based pokemon won't want to switch into cause they will take damage. Plus, being a pure dragon type, it resists fire, water, grass, and electric which seem to be some of the most common types among the newly empowered 1-4 gen pokemon.
Plus, Musharna looks like it has beastly walling capabilities and will most likely have access to calm mind which will also increase its massive special attack. And does anyone know what the Regeneration ability does yet? cause if it does heal HP like i feel like it would, Tabuune could also prove useful .
Also hypnosis has 70% accuracy again according to bulbapedia. idk how true that is though
Plus, Musharna looks like it has beastly walling capabilities and will most likely have access to calm mind which will also increase its massive special attack. And does anyone know what the Regeneration ability does yet? cause if it does heal HP like i feel like it would, Tabuune could also prove useful .
Also hypnosis has 70% accuracy again according to bulbapedia. idk how true that is though
haha i see your point.
The only other two that are really standing out for me as potential wall are the chandelier ghost fire type Shanderaa manly due to its access to flame body, 6 resistances, and immunity to fighting and normal and the dark fighting type Zuruzukin because of 115 base defenses and shed skin ability that will allow it to make use of rest effectively
The only other two that are really standing out for me as potential wall are the chandelier ghost fire type Shanderaa manly due to its access to flame body, 6 resistances, and immunity to fighting and normal and the dark fighting type Zuruzukin because of 115 base defenses and shed skin ability that will allow it to make use of rest effectively
What is this about Rest being nerfed...?
People seem to have forgotten about an attack still on Serebii called Magic Room.
"This attack changes the field so that no hold items are in effect for five turns" - Serebii
If this attack does exactly as it says, any spinners wanting to opt for the item that ignores immunities will at least have to work depending on who else gets the attack. Really, the many powerful threats in this gen suggest there's no time/space for a dedicated spinner. Either keep wailing on the opponent or stay your ground with defense. On the defensive side of using this item, keep in mind that you would lose Leftovers recovery. It was a big deal 4th gen and if it's still in 5th, I'd still opt of Lefties over a potential gimmick.
Also, some mons that we're assuming will be powerhouse offensive threats may not be as scary as you think. One example I sort of theory on is the Dark/Dragon against the Bug/Steel Ant (among other new Bug/Steel-types). The ant has a higher base speed and carries STAB + High Attack to one of Dark/Dragon's many weaknesses (Bug). Meaning unless it's holding a scarf and gets a fire type move (learned TMs not up yet) then you can safely switch in and at the worst, force it out with no harm done to you assuming it's a physical variant.
I absolutely love stall and I'm dedicated to seeing it in the new metagame, regardless of if it seems viable or not right now. I'll probably look at and theory/calculate some of the potential defensive threats when more solid info is around.
People seem to have forgotten about an attack still on Serebii called Magic Room.
"This attack changes the field so that no hold items are in effect for five turns" - Serebii
If this attack does exactly as it says, any spinners wanting to opt for the item that ignores immunities will at least have to work depending on who else gets the attack. Really, the many powerful threats in this gen suggest there's no time/space for a dedicated spinner. Either keep wailing on the opponent or stay your ground with defense. On the defensive side of using this item, keep in mind that you would lose Leftovers recovery. It was a big deal 4th gen and if it's still in 5th, I'd still opt of Lefties over a potential gimmick.
Also, some mons that we're assuming will be powerhouse offensive threats may not be as scary as you think. One example I sort of theory on is the Dark/Dragon against the Bug/Steel Ant (among other new Bug/Steel-types). The ant has a higher base speed and carries STAB + High Attack to one of Dark/Dragon's many weaknesses (Bug). Meaning unless it's holding a scarf and gets a fire type move (learned TMs not up yet) then you can safely switch in and at the worst, force it out with no harm done to you assuming it's a physical variant.
I absolutely love stall and I'm dedicated to seeing it in the new metagame, regardless of if it seems viable or not right now. I'll probably look at and theory/calculate some of the potential defensive threats when more solid info is around.
There are quite a few bulky, and defensive pokemon with the new gen (especially the ghost/water that seems to be a good spinbocker/Bulky water), but the vast amount of offensive power being shown doesn't help the cause of many pokes. The common walls of last gen will probably be just as prominate (but that also depends on the meta) and just as effective as the new gens(possibly better). Either way, I can't see how defensive next gen will be with alot of offensive based teams only needing one turn or so to setup a huge amount of threat (sandstorm comes to mind).
I think offensive spinners are the way to go this gen, similar to offensive Spin Kabutops in UU.
Doryuuzu + SD/Earthquake/Rock Slide/Rapid Spin
Starmie + Hydro Pump/Thunderbolt/Ice Beam/Rapid Spin
Donphan@Aiming Mark + Earthquake/Stone Edge/Ice Shard/Rapid Spin
Aiming Mark seems extremely well suited for Donphan, allowing it to hit flyers with Earthquake.
Doryuuzu + SD/Earthquake/Rock Slide/Rapid Spin
Starmie + Hydro Pump/Thunderbolt/Ice Beam/Rapid Spin
Donphan@Aiming Mark + Earthquake/Stone Edge/Ice Shard/Rapid Spin
Aiming Mark seems extremely well suited for Donphan, allowing it to hit flyers with Earthquake.
I feel like contact (static, poison point, and the new one poison skin) and type absorbing abilities are going to come into play big time with literally every other pokemon running around with an 100+ stat in the physical or special area. Also 2 more pokemon have the klutz ability which could prove very useful if they can learn trick
Stall will exist in the metagame simply because we can keep lugia, ho-oh, and other Gen 4 Ubers in the standard game.
With the increase in power, it's quite likely that old walls won't be able to hold everything back, but by non jumping the gun and banning everything from the get go, historically uber walls may get a permanent position as standard tanks.
With the increase in power, it's quite likely that old walls won't be able to hold everything back, but by non jumping the gun and banning everything from the get go, historically uber walls may get a permanent position as standard tanks.
True. The metagame will trully be something else, but I still believe it wont be as strong. Stall might get alot of good editions, but alot of the new pokes seem more then capable of breaking stall wide open.
No mention of the Pre-Evo stone that supposedly boosts both Defense and Special Defense of pre-evolved Pokemon? Whether or not something like Chansey + Pre-Evo stone is better than Blissey + Lefties will depend greatly on how much that boost is though.
I don't see Hydration Vaporeon as being all that viable because it already got Heal Bell and Wish, and it's likely it can't get the latter (as an egg move) with its Dream World ability.