Mario With Lasers
Self-proclaimed NERFED king
"Nintendo" did, Game Freak is just doing their job as game designers.Gamefreak and Nintendo have consistently chosen it as their battle style of choice, why have we shunned it for so long?
"Nintendo" did, Game Freak is just doing their job as game designers.Gamefreak and Nintendo have consistently chosen it as their battle style of choice, why have we shunned it for so long?
That's quite a good point about clauses not being translatable, and I think it's worth a look at. Just from looking at last years VGC (no sleep clause) the abuse of Dark Void was reasonably common, and though most teams ran at least one Lum/Chesto berry, they are sometimes inferior options and were maybe used due to item clause. Essentially, sleep was a pretty big threat, and it wasn't only Dark Voiders abusing it, so I think the sleep clause would be needed, but it's worth a test.I feel like a large amount of people want to do doubles that isn't VGC but the wait times for a battle are pretty long.
Does sleep clause even necessarily have to come? Likewise with other clauses? VGC has it's own rules and so do singles, but for this kind of metagame might as well throw in the idea that with the various doubles supportive moves, maybe a sleep clause isn't needed?
Maybe dark void itself just needs to be banned.
Implementing something like "well dark void works on the first pokemon and fails on the second" seems...like some heavy modification. More so than the sleep clause in singles.
To get this off the ground why not set up a tournament or so?
I've seen Role Play Sheer Cold Abomasnow team up with No Guard Mimic Machamp. When Abomasnow was KO'ed, a Mew came in and used Transform on Machamp. It was in a video on Youtube someone used to prove some MEchanic of Fourth gen.OHKO Clause is something that seems very exploitable in doubles due to skill swap and No Guard (unless this doesn't work), and as such may still be required, though testing it would have to be done.
Guess that answers the does it work query lol. Yeah, different clauses could be needed in doubles, or maybe a derestriction would work since things trying to pull off boosted evasion or OHKO moves can be punished pretty hard by an all out offence during the setup. Really needs testing :\.I've seen Role Play Sheer Cold Abomasnow team up with No Guard Mimic Machamp. When Abomasnow was KO'ed, a Mew came in and used Transform on Machamp. It was in a video on Youtube someone used to prove some MEchanic of Fourth gen.
Fourth 'Mon was filler.
After seeing that battle I'm convinced that OHKO Clause needs to be in place for all doubles and triples. It's just too easy to set-up. The battle only lasted as long as it did because the opposing Team had Pokemon with Protect and Sashes.Guess that answers the does it work query lol. Yeah, different clauses could be needed in doubles, or maybe a derestriction would work since things trying to pull off boosted evasion or OHKO moves can be punished pretty hard by an all out offence during the setup. Really needs testing :\.
That's cool. I would do it, but for some reason, proboards hates me atm :(I can try and set up forums
Remember to ban insta-Rain and Sun also. Do you really want to just see "Ludicolo used Surf!" "Kingdra used Surf" every other turn? If rain wasn't so broken then Sun would be a close second.This is excellent; a doubles metagame not manipulated by developers/producers is sure to be a more balanced and explored tier.
100% with Dark Void becoming banned. It's not that I have to wade through the people using it or that I hate it, its just way too easy to incorperate into every team. I have yet to see a non-turn-based strategy that could not find room for a Dark Void user (and just imagine with Victini...).
The banlist of 670 is a good move to stop early overcentralization.
While I see where you're coming from, I think this is a tricky subject. If Rain and Sun are overpowering, we have to consider, is the auto-weather too strong or is the weather too strong? Permanent rain and sun is powerful, yes, but you have to ask yourself, how is it different from just using RD/SD? It's permanent, but doubles is a fast paced metagame--maybe 8 turns is just as good as permanent if your team smashes the other that fast anyway. Not to mention the advent of priority weather users like Tornadus (who is also good for Tailwind and Hurricane spam) and whatnot, and you have to ask what is the difference between using them and banning Drizzle and Drought.Remember to ban insta-Rain and Sun also. Do you really want to just see "Ludicolo used Surf!" "Kingdra used Surf" every other turn? If rain wasn't so broken then Sun would be a close second.
The difference is a turn and possibly an item. You say yourself that it is a fast paced metagame; a move can mean everything. Weather effects happen immediately as the battle begins, which of course means Swift Swim, Solar Power, and Flower Gift are active turn one where as if you use the actual moves Rain Dance or Sunny Day you will have to stall out a turn in order for it to activate. It's like coming into battle with a Tailwind or Reflect up. What's even worse about the moves is you again have to waste a turn when you want it back up if it runs out on you or the opponent changes the weather (though arguing both ways, you'll have to bring the Drizzle/Drought Pokemon in again when you need it).Permanent rain and sun is powerful, yes, but you have to ask yourself, how is it different from just using RD/SD? It's permanent, but doubles is a fast paced metagame--maybe 8 turns is just as good as permanent if your team smashes the other that fast anyway.
I think in doubles the four weathers will prove a lot more balanced - not to mention Storm Drain or Wide guard effectively neuters surf spam, Tailwind helps outspeed SwSw and Chlorophyllers, and TR is much more rewarding. SS now also has insanely fast and powerful sweepers able to abuse it, and Hail has the ability to Blizzspam with Kyurem, which is pretty damn good considering how slow both their inducers are, giving them an advantage.Remember to ban insta-Rain and Sun also. Do you really want to just see "Ludicolo used Surf!" "Kingdra used Surf" every other turn? If rain wasn't so broken then Sun would be a close second.