RU Theorymonning

[vyomov]

Dragon Dance would make a physical set more viable but makes no sense in terms of flavor(although neither does Totodile and co getting DD :p)
With DD, mixed Magmortar would be a huge issue to deal with. Mons that outspeed and OHKO like aerodactyl will become more popular, as will mons that can wall Magmortar(like Flash Fire Entei when released). Rapidash might become more popular: it has flash fire to threaten a sweep and can outspeed and beat Magmortar with HP Rock.

OK, this is a BIG topic:
What if, just like Life Orb, GameFreak released: a) A Speed Orb, which boosts speed by 30% but gives 10% recoil each time the mon attacks in similar fashion to life Orb and b) Defensive Orb that boosts both defenses by 30% each but has 10% recoil each time the mon attacks(would be pointless if the recoil were to happen when hit because the recoil would offset the reduced damage from the attack making the item pointless)
This would revolutionize the metagame. Speaking strictly of RU, Scarfers would start using a Speed Orb instead because nobody likes being locked. With the proliferation of the Speed Orb, naturally fast mons would see a decline in usage because most mons would then be able to just run a speed orb and outspeed.
Defensive Orbs on the other hand would help stall teams greatly. Strategies like Stall would be more rampant, and mons with behemoth defenses like Regirock and Alomomola would be more popular. On the other hand, sweepers that can forego the extra power will use these items so that after revenge killing one mon, they can tank a hit and get another kill.

 

[Explorer]

The Speed Orb seems the most interesting to me. One Pokemon in particular who I think would welcome the boost is Feraligatr, because its attack is already very good while its speed is rather lacking.

Feraligatr (M) @ Speed Orb
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 252 Atk/4 SpD/252 Spe
Nature: Jolly/Adamant
-Waterfall
-Swords Dance/Dragon Dance
-Ice Punch
-Earthquake/Crunch

The moves are similar to standard Feraligatr, but the Speed Orb gives Ferligatr much more speed, which it needs to be more on the lines of faster Pokemon such as Typhlosion, Galvantula, Manectric, Scarf Rotom, etc.

Next I present a Clarity question for the orbs: Does Sheer Force negate the recoil from the Speed Orb? If it does Feraligatr may become too powerful to stay in RU as with a Speed Orb and Swords Dance it could very quickly get to +2 Attack and +.5 Speed and have drawback-free attacks (in this case slash Crunch before Earthquake on the above set since Earthquake does not abuse Sheer Force).

I also agree that the Choice Scarf would sharply decrease in popularity as for revenge killers, the ability to switch moves is well worth the 10% recoil with each attacking move successfully landed. For instance, Typhlosion could spam Eruption when it is healthy, and after it is worn out by recoil, switch directly to Fire Blast without switching to another Pokemon first.

Extension of the above question: what if another similar orb was created that cost an attacker 10% of its health for each successful attacking move, but the accuracy of all moves increased by 30%?

Example moves that would enjoy the benefit:

100%: Fire Blast, Toxic, Muddy Water, Hi Jump Kick, Hydro Pump, Charge Beam, Leech Seed, Swagger
97.5%: Will-o-Wisp
91%: Thunder, Focus Blast, Blizzard
65%: Dynamicpunch, Inferno

Hail would decrease in popularity since it is easier to spam Blizzard without forcing your entire team to take residual damage from hail (plus Snover is kind of weak). Focus Blast would also be much more reliable, among other moves.

In short, it is basically a "free" Compoundeyes.

 

[EonX]

Accuracy Orb: This would be a big boon for almost any wallbreaker as they can use their strongest moves with fewer drawbacks. One Pokemon that would suffer greatly though would be Galvantula. It's main calling card is a 91% accurate Thunder over fellow special attacking Electric-types such as Manectric and Rotom(-C)

Speed Orb: I can think of another Pokemon this would be great for; Gallade. Most will agree with me that Gallade's biggest issue when trying to sweep is its Speed. With a Speed Orb, this problem would be fixed while still maintaining the ability to use its coverage to the fullest extent. The Offensive Swords Dance set in particular would benefit from this as it would be harder to take advantage of the defense drops from Close Combat.

Defense Orb: I wouldn't say Stall teams would be the only teams to benefit from this. Not by a long shot. In fact, I would even venture to say that Bulky Offense teams may benefit from it more. Again, I'll turn to Gallade for an example, but this time with its Bulky Swords Dance set. This set is one of the bulkiest sweepers (in terms of special bulk at least) in RU and it still has the ability to absolutely decimate teams. However, unlike most other bulky attackers, Bulky SD Gallade has a STAB move that deals damage AND heals it in Drain Punch. With a Defense Orb, Gallade gains the ability to take even more special attacks, but it would also gain the ability to take a wide range of physical attacks. The recoil would be mitigated by Drain Punch as well. Of course, other bulky attackers such as Druddigon and Slowking could benefit greatly as well.

 

[MicfiJasan]

Prankster Rotom: This actually shouldn't be that unheard of (eg: Bronzong has Heatproof), but for some reason it is. Rotom would definitely love this, since although the new Earthquake weakness sucks a lot, it still has a great typing with 5 resists and 2 immunities vs. only 3 weaknesses. I could see it working like a mini-Sableye, but trading less reliable recovery and Taunt for a usable attacking stat and Thunder Wave. The paralysis allows it to cripple all Scarfers that aren't named Manectric, as can be used as a failsafe against some set up sweepers like Lilligant that boost their speed. Will-o-wisp neuters Swords Dancers, and helps him spinblock non-Lum Kabutops just a bit easier. We might see a bit more Lum Berry on set-up sweepers to block the status-fest that would be associated with this Rotom. Levitate wouldn't be completely forgotten though, and the Choice Scarf set would still use it.

DD Magmortar: Doesn't really fit flavorwise but I could see it allowing the use of Mixed/Physical sets (95 Atk certainly isn't bad). Explorer pretty much laid out all the viable moves. He also has Rock Slide and Mach Punch, but without STAB they really won't be doing too much, since Thunderpunch/Earthquake already cover all the Rock/Water/Fire-types that would try to block Flare Blitz, and despite being priority, Mach Punch just won't be doing enough damage (like how Ice Shard sucks on Donphan in OU).

Cobalion: He has quite the movepool, capable of going physical, special, and even defensive. The physical set would run SD/Close Combat/Stone Edge for sure, and then either X-Scissor or Iron Head. X-Scissor is for Psychic-types, mainly Uxie, while Iron Head is a great secondary STAB, 2HKO the Ghosts in the tier after a boost. It can run a Calm Mind set as well, but it won't go quite as well since he will be walled by something regardless of the Hidden Power he chooses. I would either go Hidden Power Ghost or Electric. The former is walled by Moltres, while the latter is walled by Gallade. Slowking is only 3HKOed by either at +1, and Quagsire doesn't care how far he boosts. Finally, he has a good defensive options, including a nice Steel typing (Blizzard resist!), Stealth Rock, Thunder Wave, Taunt, and even Volt Switch to avoid being total bait, paired with nice 91/129/72 defenses (at least physically). He will be the new best Escavalier counter, 4x resisting Megahorn and resisting his other options. He will also counter Kabutops without Waterfall. Those two will probably fall a bit, and Poliwrath might fall a bit as well, since he is arguably the best option for these two right now.

New Orbs: This one is a bit more controversial, since we have no reason to believe that these will ever be created. However, I find their concept interesting, so I'll respond to each of these. As a note, I'm assuming they all have the same mechanics as Life Orb.

Speed: I'm going to take a Devil's Advocate position here and argue that Choice Scarf usage won't completely drop. The reason: Choice Scarf users will be needed to revenge kill the new Speed Orb sweepers. Something like Durant, who has a high Attack that will be boosted by Hustle and likely Hone Claws, might run a Speed Orb to outspeed most of the metagame. However, something like Rotom will still be able to outspeed if a Scarf is equipped, and Manectric might still use Scarf so it can basically revenge kill everything but Unburden Pokemon. The biggest issue with trying this over Life Orb though is that it still suffers from the same drop in power. While Speed is important, and many people will try and use this to get the upper hand, the loss of power will be noticed, and Pokemon who use it might miss out on some crucial KOs.

Defense: I did some calcs for this, and honestly, I wasn't too impressed with the notion of using it on Bulky Attackers. I calculated that Defense Orb is better than Leftovers if you expect to take about 20% if not attacking (with no item), which is fine if you needed to tank a hit setting up. However, the tradeoff increases to a whopping 54% if you do decide to attack. Unless their revenge killer is down, you will be taking some hit like that, and that will put you on a much shorter timer. It might have some use on Pokemon that can recover decently well without Leftovers, since those extra 6%s won't matter if you're at full health constantly. It will be quite decent on stallier mons though, since a lot of them will be tanking hits around 30% or so, meaning the Defense Orb would usually be a superior choice. Alomomola comes to mind, being able to heal itself with Wish and Regenerator, and will very rarely use Waterfall/Scald.

Accuracy: The Thunder users are the obvious ones, and current Blizzspammers will be better outside of Hail. Most notable is Rotom-F, who has STAB on both of them. Another possible option would be Fire-types, who can now use Fire Blast without worry, and often carry a move like Focus Blast (Hurricane for Moltres) for coverage. In all honesty most things would probably prefer either power or speed, but it could have some niche uses.

The biggest problem with all of these is the forfeit of their current items. Those with Speed Orb can still be outsped by Scarfers while lacking the power of Life Orb. Pokemon without recovery will likely rather use Leftovers over the Defense Orb, not to mention many defensive threats use the directly superior Eviolite. And the Accuracy Orb again loses Life Orb's power in exchange for more reliability, much like choosing Flamethrower over Fire Blast, but maybe with a little more power involved.

 

[bobbyvaporeon]

What if Klinklang got Technichian?
Imagine the power of Technichian-boosted Gear Grind. Since Gears current abilities aren't great, how would this help Klinklang?

 

[Molk]

Technician Klinklang:

This would probably be a pretty cool addition to Klinklang's arsenal imo, but probably nothing really gamebreaking. That said, Klinklang's current abilities really do suck at the moment, and Technician Gear Grind does seem pretty damn appealing, reaching an astronomical 225 BP taking both Technician and STAB into account. It'd also make Klinklang much less reliant on getting a Shift Gear up to do major damage to the opponent thanks to its new buffed STAB move, which is always really good for any Pokemon really. Now, i had my own theorymon about Klinklang myself actually, something i think would end up being pretty powerful.

What if Klinklang learned Baton Pass?

This could potentially turn Klinklang into one of the scariest Pokemon in RU, Klinklang currently has a bit of trouble pulling off sweeps early game due to its poor offensive coverage (i mean Steel isnt a good STAB by any means and all it has for physical coverage is return and wild charge, really :/). However, Baton Pass would change all of that, and make it so that not just could Klinklang pull off a sweep itself with the right conditions, but it could also potentially pass on one of the most powerful boosting moves to a teammate of its choice even if it runs into an opponent that would hard wall it (it also lets it escape Magnet Pull, too!). Klinklang wouldn't have any trouble setting up Shift Gears and Baton Passing them imo because of its steel typing, which would give it plenty of opportunities to force a switch, absorb status, start Subshifting, and either sweep or pass its boosts to something much more dangerous. Personally, i think Steelix and Quagsire usage would definitely rise a bit, especially for defensive teams. They hard wall Klinklang and could probably deal with whatever the set of gears tries to pass to as well with Roar and Unaware, respectively. Other potential counters to Klinklang would definitely rise up in usage too, such as Lanturn, who 4x resists gear grind and has a complete immunity to Wild Charge, and could also use Volt Switch what gear might try to pass to and switch an appropriate teammate in in the process. As for potential recipients for Klinklang's Shift Gear passing.....there are quite a few. Gallade and Medicham are the first two that come to mind for me, they can demolish many of the Pokemon that counter Klinklang and definitely appreciate the Attack and Speed boosts from Shift Gear. Furthermore, Klinklang matches up decently well against potential checks to Gallade and Medicham, such as Spiritomb. Medicham could even use Baton Pass on its own to take advantage of this: Klinklang could pass Attack and Speed to Medicham, and when something such as Spiritomb attempts to switch in, Medicham could simply baton pass, evade Pursuit, and go back to Klinklang, who could start up the cycle again. Other potential recipients of Klinklang's Shift Gear pass include Tauros and Emboar.

So how do you think BP Klinklang would affect RU? (assuming it stayed in the tier of course, Shift Gear passing can be really powerful in the upper tiers too).

 

[EonX]

I think BP Klinklang would be much better than Technician Klingklang. Technician would help, but the main issue Klinklang has is not its power, but instead its complete inability to hit most Steel-types for effective damage. Technician would help more with physical walls that rely on their sheer bulk to handle Klinklang. Such examples would be Tangrowth, Aggron, and the lesser seen Weezing. However, it would do next to nothing to help it against Steelix and the bulky Water-types that can generally take it on such as Lanturn and Slowking.

However, BP Klinklang would be one of the most destructive forces in the current metagame. Many physical attackers pair well with Klinklang. Molk already mentioned some, but there's stuff such as Rotom(-C) Moltres, and Magmortar that could just do with the Speed boosts from Shift Gear. However, there's one recipient that could prove to just be utterly devestating; Specs/LO Glaceon. Now, this would really only be seen on Hail teams, but Glaceon's typical issue is Speed. With its Speed issues fixed, Glaceon could just tear straight through many teams and just Baton Pass out when met with a check or counter (say Slowking for example) and let another teammate utilize the boosts. (Rotom-F anyone?) Most teams rely on Speed to take out Glaceon as its Blizzard's are typically too strong for most (not all!) defensive Pokemon to switch in on, but with the boost from Shift Gear, you wouldn't even have that. Add in the fact that Glaceon could also have a Sub passed to it from Klinklang, and even your check or counter will have to take a Blizzard (2 if it doesn't come in off of a KO) before Glaceon may Baton Pass to get out.

 

[Explorer]

What would happen if Klinklang got Baton Pass? It would be harder for Klinklang to sweep on its own because it would have to give up either Substitute or Return/Wild Charge to make room for Baton Pass. Really you need to choose between Klinklang sweeping itself and Klinklang fostering the sweep of a teammate. Since Klinklang has terrible coverage (Wild Charge/Return/Hidden Power) it would be best to boost up and then pass to a teammate.

Potential partners for receiving boosts:

1. Feraligatr- has great synergy with Klinklang, resisting its Fire-type moves, while Klinklang resists Grass-type moves. Feraligatr greatly appreciates speed boosts, and the attack boost is also helpful. It could now run Waterfall, Ice Punch, Earthquake, and Crunch all at once since it no longer needs to boost itself.
2. Rampardos- with speed boosts AND the freedom to switch moves, Rampardos becomes an absolute monster. Its fantastic attack stat and great coverage options would let it 6-0 teams if Stone Edge was used as the STAB and didn't miss.
3. Escavalier- although the Fire weakness is shared, Escavalier's biggest problem is being nearly as slow as Ferroseed. Even with one Shift Gear and some speed investment, Escavalier outspeeds a good deal of Pokemon and can take a hit or two from many of the others, then proceed to destroy anything with Megahorn.
4. Durant- basically the same boat as Escavalier, but is naturally faster and has different coverage options to work with (most notably Stone Edge)
5. Emboar- When Emboar can make contact before fainting, something is likely to be blown to pieces due to Emboar's sheer force. Of course, like most of the Pokemon on this list, Emboar appreciates the speed more than the power.

My last point brings up a new theorymon:

What if Emboar got Sheer Force?

Most notably, Flare Blitz gets a significant boost while removing the very low burn chance. The only other notable moves that get boosts are Focus Blast and Rock Slide (Scald too, if you like the move). Still, would this be the preferred ability over Blaze? I don't know, maybe Reckless would be better. Mixed LO sets could be designed specifically to abuse it, with Flare Blitz, Focus Blast, Rock Slide, and a secondary coverage move (EQ, Wild Charge, maybe Scald if you absolutely LOVE abusing abilities and destroying Rhydon).

Here is one more, inspired by our extensive discussion of Klinklang:

What if Klinklang got Levitate?

This has the obvious benefit of removing one of Klinklang's few weaknesses, and is basically a free Air Balloon that can't be popped. Klinklang usage would obviously rise since its other abilities are terrible, but Magmortar, Moltres and Typhlosion, the three most popular Fire-types in RU right now, can still walk all over it since they hit its other weaknesses. At the same time, ArKlang (Arbok + Klinklang) might rise in popularity because now a common weakness is no longer shared.

In short Levitate would much more be a defensive blessing than an offensive one, but does anyone feel it might have offensive potential too?

 

[EonX]

Sheer Force Emboar: This would be much more beneficial than you may think at first. While Flare Blitz, Rock Slide, Focus Blast, and Scald are the first 4 moves that come to mind that would get the boost, there are 2 other very notable ones. First is Fire Punch. This would let Emboar get a pretty reliable move in terms of power and it would have no drawbacks whatsoever (other than the power drop obviously) It would be an effective 146 BP move factoring in STAB and the Sheer Force boost. However, the move I really look at would be ThunderPunch. This would generally be preferred to Wild Charge as it has an effective BP of 98 after the Sheer Force boost, making it stronger than Wild Charge and not causing the recoil that Wild Charge has.

Levitate Klinklang: This would definitely be an upgrade from Klinklang's other abilities and it would let it have better synergy with Fire-types (you know, the Pokemon that generally destroy the Steel-types Klinklang has issues with) I don't think it would do too much for its sweeping ability though since the only common counter to Klinklang that uses Ground-type moves is Steelix and the silver snake can just Roar it out anyway, but it would let Klinklang better handle (and setup on) the likes of Archeops and Aerodactyl for sure. (watch out for Heat Wave and Fire Blast though!)

 

[bobbyvaporeon]

We seem to theorymon Klinklang a lot
Anyways,
What if Snow Cloak acted as a Swift Swim in hail?
Pokemon such as Beartic, Glaceon, and Arcticuno (when it's released) would become fantastic sweepers, and may even get hail banned. What do you think?

 

[vyomov]

We seem to theorymon Klinklang a lot
Anyways,
What if Snow Cloak acted as a Swift Swim in hail?
Pokemon such as Beartic, Glaceon, and Arcticuno (when it's released) would become fantastic sweepers, and may even get hail banned. What do you think?

That would be something interesting to see. Beartic's highly underrated as a mon, but with the speed boost would be one of the most dangerous mons in the tier, with good coverage and attack.
Glaceon is already one of the most powerful Special Attackers in the tier. With "Swift Cloak", Glaceon would terrorize teams.
At the same time, this would result in Scarfers becoming more popular, since they are the only mons with a chance of outspeeding these mons in hail.
Cloud Nine Golduck would become a staple on teams not running hail, with the resist as well as the negation of the effect, crucial in stopping sets like StallRein.

 

[Molk]

What if Miltank learned Rapid Spin?

This may seem kind of odd at first, but because Miltank is pretty well known for using Rollout (whitney...) i could totally see Miltank getting Rapid Spin at some point in the future. Anyways. Rapid Spin Miltank would probably cement itself as the best defensive Rapid Spinner in the tier, and possibly the best one overall (I could see Kabutops retaining its spot as the best offensive spinner). Because of Scrappy, Rapid Spin Miltank would have something players have been wishing for for a very long time: an unblockable Rapid Spin, this would be absolutely invaluable on teams that really need hazards removed, as Miltank could switch in at pretty much any time and remove any entry hazards that may have been set, while the opponent can't do anything about it. Outside of Rapid Spin, Miltank still makes an excellent support Pokemon as well, with its access to important moves such as Stealth Rock and Heal Bell, reliable recovery, and excellent physical bulk, so Miltank would definitely have a lot of use outside of its Rapid Spin role, and i think the cow would have a definite shot of becoming a stall staple.

As for spin Miltank's effect on the metagame, i think that a reliable Rapid Spin would make defensive balance/stall teams a bit more common, as i know a lot of stall players have disliked relying on the physically frail, Stealth Rock weak Cryogonal lately, and an unblockable Rapid Spin would definitely be much coveted, especially if it came with a cleric as well. The use of many Stealth Rock weak Pokemon would obviously rise with the possibility of an unblockable Rapid Spin as well. In particular, Moltres+Miltank might end up being pretty popular, Moltres's 4x Stealth Rock weakness wouldn't plague it as much with an unblockable Rapid Spin as much, and Miltank has the bulk to keep this up for the entire match, and even check some common Moltres checks in the process. In return, Moltres has a handy resistance to Fighting-type attacks, letting it switch in on Pokemon such as Gallade that might try to take advantage of the cow, especially with no Stealth Rock on the field. Furthermore, Moltres actually has an easy time breaking the defensive balance/stall teams that might be more popular with spintank around, further increasing its viability.

So what do you think about Rapid Spin Miltank? Just how effective would it be? and how would it change the meta if at all?

 

[Nochman.EXE]

What if Snow Cloak acted like a Swift Swim in Hail?

If Snow Cloak doubled the Speed of its users then Hail could potentially take a large step towards offense. However, if an Ability like this existed there would be no Hail in RU (Snover would be Banned). That being said, this subject wouldn't pertain to the RU Metagame, but rather OU and possibly UU as well.

Hail was proposed by Game Freak to be played Defensively, using Stalling techniques to bring the foe down to Blizzard's KO range. That being said, let's expand upon that:

What if there was a Hydration-like Ability for Hail?

If there were to be a Hydration-like Ability for Hail, then it's users could reach better Stalling/Walling capabilities. It would certainly make Hail a more viable although still outclassed Defensive Weather that could possibly be balanced in the RU, but could grant Pokemon such as Regice a nice way to recover HP and shrug off Status.

What if Miltank got Rapid Spin?

Miltank for Ubers! Well, maybe OU, but it would definitely see more usage in the higher Tiers. With Access to the Scrappy Ability, it could run a nice Milk Drink/Heal Bell/Rapid Spin/Seismic Toss Set, and easily become the overall best Spinner in the game.

However, the addition of a guaranteed Rapid Spinner, Hazard based Strategies would become less Viable, Ghost Type's niche's lost (Dusknoir would be PU lol), and other Spinners eclipsed. Rapid Spin Miltank would become the Pokemon TO prepare a Team for, and would result in Fighting Types to raise in Usage significantly. This also means that Ghost Type would gain a new niche in beating those Fighting Type, amd cause Normal-Fight-Ghost to become the new Roshambo Typing Circle.

Great idea as usual Molk, never thought of it.

 

[EonX]

What if Miltank learned Rapid Spin? In a word, gamechanging. Stall would likely spike in usage and Miltank likely makes at least one tier jump (maybe more!) as a guaranteed spin is something almost any stall team could use. Add in a self healing move, a great team support move in Heal Bell, and you have a fantastic defensive Pokemon on your hands. However, it won't all be good. Remember, Miltank also has two other good abilities that help it out in various ways. Thick Fat gives it pseudo-resistances to Fire- and Ice-type moves (the latter being nice to deal with Hail teams better) while Sap Sipper lets it become one of the premier defensive answers to the likes of Smeargle, Amoonguss, and Lilligant. Still, Miltank gaining Rapid Spin would be a huge game changer and just the threat of it having Scrappy would be enough to make teams play differently around it (possibly letting its other abilities still see use)

 

[Bigblue]

I've got one!

What if Tail Slap's Accuracy was raised to 100%?

 

[mkizzy]

What if Tail Slap's Accuracy was raised to 100%?

the <1% of people who use wide lens will use a different item
thats pretty much it lol

What if Cinccino recieved a 25 BP Arm Thrust-like move?
steels would no longer stop cinccino in its tracks (ones without wake up slap, anyways)
uhh ill expand later

 

[Explorer]

What if Miltank got Rapid Spin?

As a defensive spinner, Miltank would rock, outclassing Cryogonal outside of Hail for overall having better defenses and attack power. Unlike Cryogonal, its typing is actually decent defensively, and it has Stealth Rock and Heal Bell. However, now Miltank has four move-slot syndrome, because Heal Bell, SR, Rapid Spin, Milk Drink, and Body Slam can't all be run together. Miltank would likely get moved out of NU because it would become too popular a defensive Pokemon in RU for its usage to stay below the threshold. Miltank still fails to outclass Kabutops because Miltank doesn't have any boosting moves to make it a worthwhile offensive spinner.

What if Aggron got Shift Gear

Aggron already gets Rock Polish, but having a +1 bonus in ATTACK makes it much more threatening. I'm not thinking this would be revolutionary, but now HO Aggron leads could become a reality:

Aggron (M) @ Rock Gem/Expert Belt
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Nature: Adamant
-Shift Gear
-Stone Edge
-Heavy Slam
-Ice Punch/Brick Break

This could destroy common leads with no worries where priority users aren't around. Sturdy ensures setup bar being burned or put to sleep (Smeargle....). Stone Edge is the main STAB since Head Smash breaks Sturdy (Rock Gem compensates for the power drop), and Heavy Slam is a secondary STAB. Brick Break has great coverage with these moves, while Ice Punch hits Ground-types very hard, especially Sandslash who think it can set up rocks on Aggron and KO it with Earthquake.

I would use this Pokemon a lot; it could be a hole-puncher too, letting a Pokemon such as SD Gallade or DD Feraligatr sweep much more easily. Feraligatr in particular synergizes fairly well with Aggron, especially if it runs Earthquake.

 

[Mack the Knife]

What if Tangrowth got Unaware?

This ability would be an epic ability for Tangrowth. Not saying Regenerator would be totally eclipsed, and it'd be pretty hard to choose which one to use. However, with this ability Physical setup sweepers such as Gallade, Klingkalng, or Feraligatr would be walled extremely hard by this. What other impacts do you think would happen if Tangrowth recieved the ability Unaware?

 

[Nozzle]

What if Hariyama got Drain Punch

Hariyama has great bulk and good offense and with Drain Punch it can abuse both. Flame orb recoil is almost no problem anymore and no defense drops from close combat anymore. It wouldn't be a huge change but it will definitely help Hariyama to stand out more.
What do you guys think?

 

[Nochman.EXE]

What if Haritama gor Drain Punch?

Why didn't I think of this... If Hariyama got Drain Punch, then it would undoubtedly become it's main choice in STAB, complimenting its Bulk and allowing it a viable form of recovery outside of Rest and becoming a lesser-Conk.

Great idea Nozzle.

 

[MicfiJasan]

Wow, so much...I'll have to divide this into two.

Drain Punch Hariyama/Poliwrath: Seriously, how do they decide the distribution for this move? Adding Poliwrath to the list because he is the other bulky Fighting-type in RU and as such requires consideration for it. For Hariyama, I suppose it could be run over Fake Out on the Flame Orb (wouldn't want building Toxic damage) set if you're okay switching in for the Guts boost, or Facade since even when poisoned CC does more damage anyway. Poliwrath admittedly would have a harder time fitting it in, since he likes Circle Throw on the RestTalk set and most likely wouldn't want mono-Fighting with all the Ghost-types running around. However he could use a Bulk Up set that allows him to heal without relying on rest (though this faces competition from Gallade).

Unaware Tangrowth: You know, I was perusing the OM threads and came across the Balanced Hackmons Viability Rankings, and one of the better strategies was an Unaware Wall. Tangrowth certainly appears to fit this description better than Quagsire, at least in taking neutral hits. That said, Regenerator is a great ability, and Tangrowth can already tank some hits from the likes of a boosted Feraligatr anyway except a +2 Ice Punch, and Klinklang is already only a 3HKO. In these cases, Tangrowth can tank the hit, threaten with Giga Drain/HP Fire (or completely shut them down with Sleep Powder), and switch out to recover almost all the damage taken. It still stops Gallade though, which could open up teambuilding just a little bit.

Shift Gear Aggron: Frankly, I would just take the Rock Polish/Autotomize and add Shift Gear over the regular speed booster. The lead set is interesting, but not really that effective. Looking at the 5 most common leads, Uxie can tank a hit at +1 and cripple you with Thunder Wave, rendering the speed boost useless. Aerodactyl loses to surprise value only, he could Taunt and switch out. Druddigon has Sucker Punch to KO if it Earthquakes while you set up. Smeargle outspeeds and can Spore you twice to set up Spikes and even phaze you out. If you're desperate to set up, you only really win against Crustle, who won't be doing much else but setting up SR and a layer of Spikes. Still, a CB power Aggron at +2 Speed with the freedom to switch moves? Sounds good to me.

ScrappySpin Miltank: Given how more casual players have an obsession for Rapid Spin, especially when it's guaranteed, I would not be surprised to see this thing go through RU to UU or higher. Not having to worry about Spinblockers at all is a huge deal. Add to that the fact that Miltank has reliable recovery, Heal Bell, and Stealth Rock, Miltank would become quite the strong support Pokemon in whatever tier it lands in. Stopping it would become another issue entirely, since Rapid Spin isn't blocked by Taunt or Magic Coat, so something else will likely be put in place before this happens to balance it out (blocked by a Sub maybe?).

Sheer Force Emboar: EonX covered the moves benefits quite well. However, I'm not sure how it would compare to Reckless. The biggest advantage would be being able to 2HKO Alomomola and Quagsire with Focus Blast. While Thunderpunch would be preferred over Wild Charge on a Sheer Force set, Reckless Wild Charge does more damage than Sheer Force Thunderpunch. Most Sheef Force users run Life Orb, and Emboar could run it much more effectively than with Reckless. However, his speed really becomes an issue once he loses his Scarf, so I'd expect Sheer Force variants to have a slightly bulkier spread (although max speed ties with Adamant Hitmonchan) or keep the Scarf, but lose a coverage move/Sleep Talk for Focus Blast.

 

[Nozzle]

What if Poliwrath, Hariyama, and Throh had access to Drain Punch?

First off, they should.

Second, all three of these Pokemon would benefit greatly from the addition of Drain Punch to their movepools. All of them are very bulky Fighting-types with no reliable form of recovery. While Drain Punch is not the most reliable form of recovery, it's something else in addition to Leftovers and/or in place of Rest.

Poliwrath would probably appreciate the move the most of the three Pokemon I mentioned. Its most reliable Fighting-type attack at the moment is Submission. Focus Punch and Circle Throw are both better, but due to their negative priority, they can both make things a bit difficult for Poliwrath. Drain Punch can work well on both of its main sets. On the RestTalk set, RestTalk can be gotten rid of, and you can use Drain Punch without having to decide whether you would rather use Scald or Toxic; you could use both.

Meanwhile, on the Substitute set with Bulk Up, instead of just running Sub/Focus Punch, you would have the ability to run Sub/Bulk Up with Drain Punch and Waterfall. Thanks to its cool typing, this would allow Poliwrath to set up on even more things than it can now!

Hariyama would also greatly appreciate the addition of Drain Punch to its movepool. Both of its main sets wouldn't mind the addition of Drain Punch. The status orb set probably benefits from it the least out of all the sets I will mention for each of these Pokemon, but even so, it still wouldn't mind it. Especially if you are running Flame Orb, Drain Punch can allow Hariyama to stick around much longer than what it would otherwise. Considering its Speed is so lackluster, it will likely be taking a hit or two as well. Drain Punch means that it won't mind this so much.

It's other main set (albeit a rare one) is its Whirlwind RestTalk set. The best option for Hariyama to run with this set is Force Palm since Close Combat causes Defense drops. While this provides it a nice niche as a parashuffler, Hariyama would still prefer the added power that Drain Punch provides. It also doesn't mind the recovery, even on a RestTalk set. Finally, thanks to Guts, it gets a nice power boost while asleep, meaning that Drain Punch will hit for a notable amount of damage against many Pokemon in the tier.

Finally, with Drain Punch, not unlike Poliwrath, Hariyama could run a potent Sub/Bulk Up set. I feel like it would have great success with this thanks to its great bulk and Attack. Not much else to add on this one, as it would play very similarly to Poliwrath. It would probably run Ice Punch and Bullet Punch for coverage and priority respectively. It may run Thunderpunch over Ice Punch though so that it can hit Slowking.

Throh is another Pokemon that would love Drain Punch despite its NU status. With (once again) Bulk Up and Drain Punch at its disposal, Throh would be a force to be reckoned with. Probably the best check to the set would be Spiritomb who is immune to Drain Punch and can burn Throh with Will-o-wisp. Of course, this will give Throh a Guts boost, but since the best moves it has to hit Spiritomb with are Payback (which Throh outspeeds, so it will only be base 50 power anyways) and Ice Punch. Even so, as the Fighting-type with the greatest bulk aside from Arceus-Fighting, players would be rather hard-pressed to take the fighter down.

So overall, how do you think the addition of this move to these three Pokemon would affect the tier? I don't think that it would shake things up as drastically as Houndoom, King of RU, dropping to the tier would, but I definitely believe it would increase the viability of these Pokemon!

Only just saw this topic has already been brought up. My bad.

 

[EonX]

Unaware Tangrowth: This would largely be a mixed bag. On the one hand, Tangrowth would be able to wall pretty much every common physical sweeper in the tier except for maybe Druddigon with Unaware. However, by using Unaware, Tangrowth becomes much more suseptible to being worn down. Since almost any special attacker sends it running, the lack of Regenerator healing in such circumstances would really show itself in the mid-portions of a game when Tangrowth will likely have been worn down by residual damage from SR and Spikes whereas it can recover from this more easily with Regenerator. That said, Unaware would make an already versatile threat in Tangrowth even more versatile and that can never be a bad thing.

 

[Molk]

What if Electivire learned Volt Tackle?

Despite seemingly good stats and some of the best coverage out of any Pokemon in the entire game, Electivire's always been looked down on for one reason or another. Even after its days of being OU in DPP, Electivire is still shunned in RU for the most part. I'd argue that one of the main reasons for this is that although Electivire has a great Attack stat to work with and quite a few coverage options, it suffers from the low BP of its STAB and coverage moves, meaning it often just barely misses out on KOs, and has trouble touching Pokemon that it can't hit for super effective damage. Having the ability to use the powerful Volt Tackle over the somewhat weak Wild Charge would probably improve Electivire quite a bit imo, and would certainly increase its damage output significantly. All of a sudden, Electivire is no longer struggling against those targets that it cannot hit super effectively, as it now has the raw power to break through them with the ability to use Volt Tackle. As an example of how powerful Electivire's Volt Tackle would be, it'd be pretty much on par with the power of Emboar's Flare Blitz or Braviary's Brave Bird at the moment, thats certainly much better than the power of Electivire's Wild Charge right now!

Of Course Electivire might still have its troubles even with a much more powerful STAB move like Volt Tackle. For one thing, while Volt Tackle is much stronger than Wild Charge, it also has a bigger drawback as well, doing 1/3 recoil instead of 1/4, and because Electivire's Hp stat isn't particularly high, its probably not going to be living that long. Also, a stronger Electric-type STAB doesn't fix the problem of Electivire's somewhat weak coverage moves, meaning it'll still occasionally have trouble with just barely missing out on a KO against a Pokemon it hits super effectively. Nonetheless though, i think Volt Tackle would be a definite improvement to Electivire's movepool, changing it from one of the laughingstocks of the tier to a legitimate threat that could do some real damage.

Volt Tackle Evire mass calc: http://pastebin.com/7YCiLS02

 

[EonX]

What if Electivire learned Volt Tackle: This would be interesting. The main issue with Electivire is that it doesn't have a singular "raw power" move to utilize in tight spots. When you think of many of the top Pokemon currently, they all have that "power" move they can go to. Slowking has Specs Surf / Psyshock. Gallade has Close Combat. Entei and Emboar have Flare Blitz. Druddigon has Outrage. Sceptile has Overgrow Giga Drain and +2 Flying Gem Acrobatics. Braviary has Brave Bird. etc. etc, the list goes on and on. With Volt Tackle, Electivire would also join the ranks of offensive Pokemon with a "power" move to go to. However, this would bring upon its secondary issue. Its inability to survive long in a match. While Volt Tackle's recoil is on par with Brave Bird and Flare Blitz, there's one thing that Entei, Emboar, and Braviary all have that Electivire doesn't: a high HP stat (115, 110, and 100 respectively) for absorbing recoil with. This is already an issue for Electivire with a move that only causes 1/4 recoil, but with Volt Tackle, it now takes 1/3 of the damage it causes in recoil. This is not to mention possible Life Orb recoil just from attacking in general. While Volt Tackle would give Electivire a much needed "power" move, it would also compound its problem of sticking around for very long in matches as its HP stat is just not enough to withstand the harsh recoil brought on with such power.