The Future of Competitive Battling (UPDATED, PLEASE READ)

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^ A picture of the two mascot legendaries, Reshiram and Zekrom, in battle.

Once upon a time, a long, long time ago, Alakazam had all of the Kanto region in its grasp as the most powerful Pokemon at the time (besides Mewtwo). Then in Generation 2, Steel types and Dark types were introduced, specifically Houndoom, Scizor, and Tyranitar, knocking Alakazam off its throne as the best in the land. In Generation 3, we were introduced to many new faces and threats, including those in the forms of Salamence and Metagross. Then we had the Sinnoh region, with all of the evolutions of pokemon from previous generation. Here, we witnessed the advent of suicide leads and Hyper Offense teams. We saw the evolution of stall, and here, in Generation 4, did competitive battling truly begin to kick off. Now, we're at the start of a new age, a place where we can't possibly predict what will happen next. We're now in uncharted territory, pioneers of who knows what the hell what. In a land where having at least one base 140 stat seems average, and where new abilities and Pokemon hold us in their sway, what does this new frontier have in store for us? In time (about two weeks), we will learn more about these Pokemon, and what their purpose is to be. All this, and all the changes to come will shake up our mentality as competitive battlers. 120+ base stats were given away like candy on Halloween. What are the plans for the Limbo tier? How will Speed tiers be sorted out? All this will come to us in time.

Everyone's excited, what do the new Pokemon have in store for us? We've been introduced to Zoroark, a shady fox-like pokemon that has the ability to create illusions. Then came Reshiram and Zekrom, the mascot legendaries on the covers of Pokemon Black and White, respectively. Whispers of the new ability Earthquake Spiral began to spread, and pictures of the starter evolutions surfaced. Originally believed to be fake, they turned out to be authentic and all of a sudden, "What starter are you going to choose?" was a question asked quite frequently in the Shoddy Battle Smogon University chatroom. I, personally, will be choosing Tsutarja, more commonly known as Smugleaf. The three, coined in America as Smugleaf, Pignite, and Wotter even now continue to have us wondering, what is in store for us. 3V3 battles also make their debut. How difficult will it be to battle with the new rules, especially since you can't attack Pokemon all the way on the far side of you. Alternate formes are explored more in depth in Black and White, as even far as to change form, base stats, and typing during a battle! Expect to see Hihidaruma and Melola play around with this a lot.

The Pokemon have all been introduced to us, base stats and sprites and all. But how, how will they modify the landscape? We've seen so many bulky attackers with low speed this generation. Will Trick Room teams reign supreme, or will suicide leads continue to hold the heavy impact they do upon the metagames of OU and Ubers? Drizzle and Drought have now been awarded to Politoed and Ninetales, expect Rain Dance, Sunny Day, and even Sandstorm and Hail teams to be in abundance next generation. I'll be making a Rain team myself. The Dream World is giving a host of Pokemon better abilities, so pretty much everyone's a winner. And when everyone's a winner...no one is.

The most awaited thing of course, are the new dragons, of which we have three;
  • Ononokusu, the beast, at Pokemon #612 boasting 147 base attack and pure Dragon typing. Me myself, I hope to be the one to write the analysis for it.
  • The dark horse named Kurimugan at #621 , a standalone Dragon, seems to be the weakest of the three. What impact will it have on the metagame?
  • Finally, we have the sixth and latest pseudo legendary, an initiate into the group of super strong Pokemon boasting 600 BSTs. Sazando, the Dark/Dragon hydra, and the first specially based pseudo legendary. All eyes are on these three to make a splash in the Generation 5 metagame. We all witnessed the banning of Garchomp, Latias, and most importantly, Salamence. What do their draconic brethren have in store for us next generation? How will they all manage to co-exist in the next OU metagame, presuming they're all there?

  • In time, all of our questions will be answered. But until our friends lucky enough to get a japanese copy of Pokemon Black and Pokemon White tell us more, and the new metagame is introduced, we can only do so much as to wonder, and do some extreme theorymoning as to what Generation V has in store for us.

    In this thread, I want to hear about your ideas, your hopes, your thoughts about how the next Generation will be. Myself, like a lot of you, will be waiting until March to place my hands on the latest games. So please, a note to all, even the mods, just drop a comment or a little something. =)

    What to look out for in Generation 5
    #553 - Warublaru (Ground/Dark) Intimidate/Earthquake Spiral - boosts Attack one stage per KO, 97/117/70/65/70/92 (I really want to write this analysis for this).
    #555 - Hihidaruma (Fire) Encourage, 105/140/55/30/55/95, Hihidaruma becomes a Fire/Psychic type with 140 base SpA and 30 attack at 50% HP and lower. Look out for possible SubSalac sets.
    #563 - Desukan (Ghost) Mummy - Changes the foes ability to Mummy. This thing is going to be messing with teams next generation. 58/50/145/95/105/30
    #571 - Zoroark (Dark) Illusion. Expect to see Zoroark make an appearance in OU next in Gen V. 60/105/60/120/60/105
    #589 - Shubarugo (Bug/Steel) Swarm/Shell Armor, Trick Room anyone? 70/135/105/60/105/20
    #598 - Nattorel (Grass/Steel) Iron Barbs. This thing is sending some serious Forretress vibes at me. They look alike, have the same weaknesses mainly, but this thing is much better rounded. 74/94/131/54/116/20
    #609 - Shanderaa (Ghost/Fire) Flash Fire/Flame Body/Shadow Tag. Here's my pick for first non-legendary Uber of Generation 5. This thing is just a monster. 145 base SpA with Ghost and Fire STAB, holy shit? All it has to do is switch into a Choiced Fighting move, Sub and get 6 calm minds. Gg. 60/55/90/145/90/80
    #612 - Ononokusu (Dragon) Rivalry/Mold Breaker, This thing is pure Dragon and has 147 base Attack. At level 100 with max EVs, this thing is hitting 419 base attack no problem. Outrage, Earthquake, and Dragon Dance are things to look out for on this guy. Another tidbit, this guys' Outrage is almost as strong as Rayquaza's, while Ononokusu actually outspeeds Rayquaza
    #635 - Sazando (Dark/Dragon) Levitate, Amazing offensive STAB typing comes in the form of the newest member of the pseudo-legendary club. A lot of eyes are on this one. Be prepared to pack some Weaviles on your team. The new non-Pursuit weak Latias is going to make a huge impact on the metagame. However, a lack of boosting moves really limit the potential of this thing. 92/105/90/125/90/98
    #637 - Urugamosu (Bug/Fire) Flame Body. This thing has a pretty neat stat distribution. However, losing 50% of its HP to Stealth Rock upon entry will keep plenty of people at bay about thing...and will probably keep it off plenty of teams.

    Thanks for the read.
    - Misty Slappy
 

Aerrow

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Here's a little comment I felt I needed to post due to my immense liking to the Pokemon it's about: Kyuremu. It seems that everyone has forgottten about this Pokemon due other Pokemon like Reshiram, Zekrom and Ononokusu being the centre of almost all the attention and Discussion. With base 130 Attack and Special Attack stats, coupled with a base 90 Speed stat and base 90 defensive stats, Kyuremu seems to be in the middle of both OU and Uber. Personally, I really hope it gets into OU but I guess only time can tell what will happen to this Pokemon with its unique typing - Ice/Dragon.
 
Good read. These new Huge BST pokemons, new items, new abilities, Dream world pokemons and 3 vs 3 Triple battles have me very interested on what will happen next. I hope it finally get to the point where you have to research very deep in a hole to find that one perfect pokemon team because all the things I just said will make this very possible. Not to mention, we got 1 vs 1 Singles, 2 vs 2 Doubles, and 3 vs 3 Triples and there will be the best trainer and their best teams for each kind of battles...

Pokemon Black and White will change the Pokemon metagame forever.
 
Magnificent O.P.

As I don't want to take things for granted, nor want to say that things are banned before even knowing what they really are, i must say that the scariest thing is not the huge powerhouses like Axgon or Chandelier, but the new Dream World abilities. Some of the pokes we once knew weak and NU material at best may become center of the metagame (Ninetails and Poli, i'm looking at you), but also the two additional Shadow Tag users. Users that are not only bulky enough to abuse their wonderful ability, but also having somewhat of a movepool, something Wobuffet lacked with its whopping 8 moves.

I'm guessing that Shadow Tag may be the first ability we actually ban, but again, it's just speculations.
 
I don't think Kurimugan is very scary at all, seems like a new Dragon for UU and nothing else. Ononokusu is scary though if he get's a decent fire type physical attack and earthquake.

Sazando is something else, it's mixed stats are great but unlike any mixed dragon before it, it's main stat is special. It'll be interesting to see what moves it get's. It doesn't look like it get's nasty plot though hahaha.

Hopefully calm mind?

That'd be cool.

There are alot more threatening thing's to worry about in BW though.

Weather weather everywhere, and everyone saying it's gonna be hyper offense has to look at things like Hydration Vaporeon and powerful new defensive threats like Burunkeru (Ghost/Water), Desukan (Ghost), and Nattorei (Grass/Steel) which provide very interesting new defensive cores! For example, Burunkeru, Blissey and Nattorei is a similar combination to the previously infamous Skarmbliss. With a few minor tweaks that seem to make it better in my eyes, as the only counters to Blissey and Nattorei are fire and fighting, both of which are trounced by Ghost/Water.
 
Here's a little comment I felt I needed to post due to my immense liking to the Pokemon it's about: Kyuremu. It seems that everyone has forgottten about this Pokemon due other Pokemon like Reshiram, Zekrom and Ononokusu being the centre of almost all the attention and Discussion. With base 130 Attack and Special Attack stats, coupled with a base 90 Speed stat and base 90 defensive stats, Kyuremu seems to be in the middle of both OU and Uber. Personally, I really hope it gets into OU but I guess only time can tell what will happen to this Pokemon with its unique typing - Ice/Dragon.
It's too good.

Though then again, if that durp 147 attack Dragon's allowed, who knows.

Anyway, speculation is pointless right now, but I hope the bug/steel will not go to Ubers. I'm taking a liking to him.
[Plus, the steel/dark ended up completely disappointing]
 
Considering that every pokemon has been given new toys to play with in light of the Dream World, I can safely say that this seems to be the most promising generation for the metagame. How it will evolve from this point on is really a complete mystery, but I've got a hunch that weather teams will become vastly more popular.

-The introduction of Politoad and Ninetails getting Drizzle and Drought respectively. I have a feeling that these pokemon will now have a place in OU as the premier starting pokemon in Rain Dance and Sunny Day teams.

-Just look at all of the pokemon that get new weather activated abilities. Just scanning them over makes it stand out that Game Freak seemed to really push it this generation! Not to mention new abilities that might have to do with being in weather effects as well.

I'm very excited to see where this will be lead.
 
I also really liking the Dragon/ice pokemon, Kyuremu but it is severely hampered by scizor. Even with 125hp/90 defense as a CB bullet punch does 90.5% - 106.4 % to it. it would probablyhave to run Substitute to aviod being pummeled by scizor. A technician boosted Mach punch by a CB breloom would do the same amount of damage. I really think people are overhyping some of these base 140+ stats. Unless Ononokusu, has decent priority, I don't see it sweeping teams. The steel/ground mole looks dangerous through. I overall think that priority moves will be increasingly common because, mmost pokemon don't want to take a hit from many of the really strong pokemon. i also think stall as a plasyle will be decreasing, and eveyteam will have a rapid spinner, with item that cancels immunities.
 

Deck Knight

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All of you shall fear the might of Mondo Mole. He is the third strongest in all of Pokemon. With 135 Atk (that can be boosted even further by Swords Dance) and 88 Spe, he a has an ability that doubles Speed in a Sandstorm, this Ground/Steel mole will wreak havoc throughout the land.

tl;dr Doryuuzu for the win.
 
All of you shall fear the might of Mondo Mole. He is the third strongest in all of Pokemon. With 135 Atk (that can be boosted even further by Swords Dance) and 88 Spe, he a has an ability that doubles Speed in a Sandstorm, this Ground/Steel mole will wreak havoc throughout the land.

tl;dr Doryuuzu for the win.
In my humble opinion, among all non-legendaries he's the second biggest threat from this gen, after Axeface.
 
All of you shall fear the might of Mondo Mole. He is the third strongest in all of Pokemon. With 135 Atk (that can be boosted even further by Swords Dance) and 88 Spe, he a has an ability that doubles Speed in a Sandstorm, this Ground/Steel mole will wreak havoc throughout the land.
Yeah, seriously, it doesn't look like there will be any revenge killer for it, except pokemon who change weather from sandstorm, or cloud nine pokemon. Hippowdon, Suciune might be able to take a hit and OHKO back.
 
I just pray that Ononkusu can't learn that new Physical Base 180 power, 95 accuracy Fire attack.
I hope it does to be honest. Just to troll big time...

Ononkusu
Ability: Mold Breaker
Adamant Nature
252 ATTACK/252 SPEED EVS @ Life orb

Dragon dance
Outrage
Earthquake
Flaming *trollface* of death aKa The physical Fire type with base 180 power.


Yes please.
 
awesome read. i can personally see miju3 using a swords dance set (that should be obvious) or an agility set. ononokusu is going to be a beast, that's for sure. also, i think urugamosu could be OU with a decent movepool, uber even. kerudio with its water/fighting typing, and with 108 speed and 129 sp.attack! that was supposed to be miju3! but whatever. hihidaruma is going to be an awesome sweeper, and its daruma mode makes it an awesome candidate for a calm mind set, a decent mixed wall(maybe?).

also, #666. and the moves confirm. gentlemen, we can have Satan and God working together.
 
Owuh?

That's...

what the hell...

pretty awesome.

If Blaziken get's it we're doomed.

But I hope Enboar get's it.
That move is listed near the bottom of the new moves list beside things like Reshiram and Zekrom's signature moves. I wouldn't be surprised if it's legendary exclusive along with stuff like this:

[M553]: Physical Ice PP: 5 Power: 140 / Accuracy: 90 Effect: May cause paralysis (30%)
[M554]: Special Ice PP: 5 Power: 140 / Accuracy: 90 Effect: May cause a burn (30%)
 
Well, I've seen quite a few new gens coming by and this one is no special, I must say. Nobody is seriously going to test Reshiram and Zekrom, as well as we won't be re-testing Mewtwo (and never did).
Nobody will suggest to start with the banlist of 493, either. That's because the banlist simply does not apply. And of course, we're facing new threats that seem much more frightening than the "old" metagame we know. That's because we already know the old metagame...
Let me tell you a story:
When RS came out, people asked if Medicham wasn't too strong for OU, or perhaps Skarm now that it got Spikes. (I'm serious.) When DP came out, people feared Rampardos' massive Atk (that still is way higher than Ononokusu's) and of course Garchomp.
Garchomp is one of the few cases in pokemon history where things actually went wrong. Not as wrong as with Curse in GS, or with Blissey in RS, or with Stealth Rock in DP. But I guess he was the new guy and nobody cared if he stayed away. We had long accepted to see Blissey on 50% of all teams, but Garchomp on 75% we didn't like.
And in the end, GF fixed this for us (as they always do). No, they did not give us a Dragon-Flash Fire on a Water/Flying type. They did give us more competition. And as someone in some thread said: If all are broken, none are broken.
In every generation, the gameplay has been taken to a level that was Uber territory in the former generation. Garchomp was nothing but a lonely scout, coming to us from the next generation, telling us about the future of pokemon battling. The same is probably true for Wobbuffet and Lati@s. We can already see that the next generation plays on the level of these pokemon. It was just the same when RS introduced a sweeping power that was formerly exclusive to GS-Ubers.
And as youc an see, this comparison even takes us further: Rain and sun were formerly part of the uber metagame. Kinda late, they now enter OU. And GF did precisely want that. Notice how the "stronger weather" will be kept out of UU while sun is available through vulpix?
However, we have to cope with generally greater threats. Ninetales and Poliwrath alone would have completely ruled the 493 metagame. But now we also got some great tools to fight them: The candelier can trap ninetails and kill it, so you can use your own the next turn. The gothic lolita can probably switch into both. And sandstorm, that just dominated 493 because it was so easy to keep around now got, some new tools that make the new, much harder effort to keep sandstorm on the field worthwhile.
So, yeah, I could say "stall" is dead, but it probably isn't. I thought so at the beginning of RS, and at the beginning of DP. Probably there always is some way for stall, but it always takes the community a bit to find it. I could say the metagame is going to be crazy, insane and unpredictable. But it won't. I've thought so for the past two generations, too. But in the end, there always are some standards.
What I can see is that there are two major differences for this generation compared to the others before:
- We start with over600 Pokemon. Do not get me wrong, it's not the number that counts. But there really never has been a generation where the new pokemon and the update of the old pokemon came at the exact same time. RS put months between these moments. And DPPt mostly worked through move tutors.
- What GF tries to do (IMO) is to make theme team more and more viable. We really have themed teams when it comes to rain, sun or sandstorms. And I think I see some more potential to develop here.
 

Firestorm

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From the Rules Thread:
4. In threads discussing the metagame, do not assume any particular Pokémon are banned. This is a completely new game and any preconceived notions about what is broken are not applicable.
 

Manaphy

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-Politoed and Ninetails and Sand Throw. The metagame will be very much more weather-based, with MANY Powerful Pokemon getting benefited from the Weather.

- Offensive AND Stall is getting boosted. With Things like Erufuun (116 Speed. Growth, and Possibly Sleep Powder, and has Leech Seed for the SubSeed Strategy), Ononokusu (147 Attack and 97 Speed), Zoroark (120 Sp.Atk and 105 Speed), Dooryuuzu (135 Attack and Sand Throw), Hihidaruma (140 Attack 95 Speed), Chandelar (145 Sp.Atk and 80 Speed), Sazando (125 Sp.Atk and 98 Speed) Terrakion (129 Attack and 108 Speed with Rock and Fighting STAB), Speed Boost Blaziken (bye infernape), and maybe even Technician Breloom/Roserade, Offense doesn't have to worry about a thing.

Stall gets Cobalon (91/129/72, Steel/Fight), Nuttre (74/131/116, Grass/Steel With Iron Barbs), Mamanboh (165/80/45 with Hydration), Burunkeru (100/70/105 Water/Ghost), Abagohra (74/133/65 with Solid Rock/Sturdy), Deathkan (58/145/105 with Mummy, and Probably has Will-O-Wisp), Poison Heal Gliscor (Yes, he gets Poison Heal in the Dream World), and Sturdy Skarmory (Never gets OHKO'd) make Stall all the better.
 
There are quite a few pokemons in the 140s range for one of their base offensive stat, which is pretty cool. Its gonna suck having to learn all these new pokemons again, and I'm going to miss the 4th generation. Nonetheless, I'm still quite excited to see how much this metagame will change.
 
If we do allow all of the "automatic" Ubers into competetive play, will we add Arceus as well? We've never actually had a metagame with it in it so it could shake everything up just as much as all these new Pokemon.

With the offenses of some Pokemon rivaling Ubers (Ononokusu, Shanderaa, etc.), it seems like we might as well let the current Ubers into the metagame because these new Pokemon could even be more powerful than they are. And we'll end up discovering that as the metagame settles.

It was originally assumed that all automatic Sun/Rain was broken but now we have Ninetails and Politoed. If they're not broken, then clearly Kyogre and Groudon aren't, solely for that reason.
 

Manaphy

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It was originally assumed that all automatic Sun/Rain was broken but now we have Ninetails and Politoed. If they're not broken, then clearly Kyogre and Groudon aren't, solely for that reason.
Yeah, but Kyogre and Groudon have 150 Attack/Sp.Atk and 140 Sp.Def/Def seasoned in, it would completely overcentrilise the Metagame.

However, That doesn't mean we shouldn't try them.
 
Well we did get things like Onokurusu with, 147 atk, but yeah those defenses are sick. Groudon and Kyogre are infinitely more threatening than Ninetales and Politoed definitely. Should be interesting.
 

Kevin Garrett

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Speed tiers will be a big thing in BW. Game Freak has given us two more powerful Dragons that will start in standrad play. They have incredible power, but in exchange they fall below a base speed stat of 100. I'll use Garchomp as an example. Its attack stat was nothing that was unseen before in standard play, but the way the stats were divided made it a virtually perfect Pokemon. The speed was right above 100 and it had enough bulky to make good use of berries and Sand Veil. To top it off, it had access to Swords Dance to give it a major power boost. Dragon Dance wouldn't have been needed because it already outsped most of the metagame.

Now with these new Dragons, depending upon their movepools, might not be as dominant. Even if they both get Dragon Dance, they will still have to always live in fear of Jolly Garchomp or Flygon holding a Choice Scarf to rain on its parade. I purposely left out Salamence and Dragonite in the assumption that Stealth Rock will still play a large role in the metagame. With that being said, I think Ononokusu was made for Choice Band. That thing will be a total beast because it can hit and run. Sazando will be interesting if it gets Pursuit because there might not be a way of escaping it. That all remains to be seen, though.
 
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