The Future of Competitive Battling (UPDATED, PLEASE READ)

[Random Rider]

Well, i know that, my previous post made that clear.

I am saying not everything should be allowed to be in OU.Pokemon like Mewto,Lugia and Dialga.

If every Pokemon is allowed in OU, there won't be a need for an Ubers tier.Because nothing will be broken anymore.

The Top Ten Pokemon will be those monster Legendaries...My point is that if those Legendaries are allowed in OU, there will never be an Uber Tier.

I am not talking about Garchomp,Deoxys-D,Manaphy,Shamin-S...I am talking about Groudon,Kyogre and Mewtwo etc..

If there is no need for an ubers tier, I would consider that to be a good thing. It means Gamefreak finally managed to balence their own damn game. As long as there is able to be a large amount of diversity, I'm all for it even if those pokemon have the arbitrary "legendary" title. I suspect we made need more playable tiers though. OU and UU won't be enough forever and we might already need a 3rd or even 4th tier.

If all the Pokemon are allowed in OU, Kyogre and Groudon would not be sent to Ubers because their counters would also be OU(Latios/Latias/Shaymin-S), so there would not be a need for an Uber tier..

Im saying that some 670 and higher BST legendaries may not even be broken and judging them just based on how good they were in previous gens is completely unfair. Kyogre and Groudon specifically are not only broken for their offensive characteristics, but for their support characteristic of auto-weather. Therefore, they are 2 pokemon that I could not imagine possibly not being broken. So we agree on those two. However, things like Lugia and Rayquaza may not be so certain.

 

[some hero]

If there is no need for an ubers tier, I would consider that to be a good thing. It means Gamefreak finally managed to balence their own damn game. As long as there is able to be a large amount of diversity, I'm all for it even if those pokemon have the arbitrary "legendary" title. I suspect we made need more playable tiers though. OU and UU won't be enough forever and we might already need a 3rd or even 4th tier.

Well, all i am saying if everyone is allowed, the top ten will look like last gens Uber tier...

I really don't know about this, so is someone like Mewtwo/Dialga going to be allowed in Ou?

 

[IcyMan28]

Well, all i am saying if everyone is allowed, the top ten will look like last gens Uber tier...

I really don't know about this, so is someone like Mewtwo/Dialga going to be allowed in Ou?

Policy review is currently debating this topic. There seems to be a general consensus with re-allowing all of Gen 4's suspects, but there is some dispute as to whether Kyogre-level threats should drop down.

Honestly, the worst that could happen is: Kyogre+Groudon+Rayquaza's metagame becomes OU.

What we have known and referred to as "OU" becomes UU.

UU becomes something less. Etc.

 

[Random Rider]

Well, all i am saying if everyone is allowed, the top ten will look like last gens Uber tier...

I really don't know about this, so is someone like Mewtwo/Dialga going to be allowed in Ou?

I don't care what the top ten look like as long as there's reasonable diversity. Those two are almost certainly not going to be allowed in OU after testing IMO though. Ho-Oh and Rayquaza are two 670 plus legends that at least deserve testing. Let me be clear, I think everything deserves testing, but I think Mewtwo and Dialga would be uber in almost all metagames, therefore unlikely to be OU. Anything's possible though.

Oh, and let me be clear about another thing. Gen.4's testing sucked. I do not want that again for every pokemon. When I say testing, I am talking about a hypothetical better method that Smogon is currently devising that should be quicker and better and did I mention quicker?

 

[Lorenz]

Well as its been said GF is making no attempt to hide their preference for weather. Unfortunately I think we're gonna have a metagame where if you don't play with a weather team, you just aren't gonna last.

 

[some hero]

Policy review is currently debating this topic. There seems to be a general consensus with re-allowing all of Gen 4's suspects, but there is some dispute as to whether Kyogre-level threats should drop down.

Honestly, the worst that could happen is: Kyogre+Groudon+Rayquaza's metagame becomes OU.

What we have known and referred to as "OU" becomes UU.

UU becomes something less. Etc.

That was basically what i was saying.And i really hope Dialga/Mewtwo/etc are not allowed..If they are, why even use the new Pokemon(other than the new 670+ legendaries)

I don't care what the top ten look like as long as there's reasonable diversity. Those two are almost certainly not going to be allowed in OU after testing IMO though. Ho-Oh and Rayquaza are two 670 plus legends that at least deserve testing. Let me be clear, I think everything deserves testing, but I think Mewtwo and Dialga would be uber in almost all metagames, therefore unlikely to be OU. Anything's possible though.

If Ho-Oh stays the same, than he would fit in this gen's OU...But i'm sure Ho-Oh will learn a couple new attacks/new ability.

 

[Random Rider]

That was basically what i was saying.And i really hope Dialga/Mewtwo/etc are not allowed..If they are, why even use the new Pokemon(other than the new 670+ legendaries)

Until there are about 30 670plus legendaries not named Regigigas, OU will probably always need some bans. However, I could imagine there being much much less uber pokemon.

 

[cosmicexplorer]

Well, i know that, my previous post made that clear.

I am saying not everything should be allowed to be in OU.Pokemon like Mewto,Lugia and Dialga.

If every Pokemon is allowed in OU, there won't be a need for an Ubers tier.Because nothing will be broken anymore.

The Top Ten Pokemon will be those monster Legendaries...My point is that if those Legendaries are allowed in OU, there will never be an Uber Tier.

I am not talking about Garchomp,Deoxys-D,Manaphy,Shamin-S...I am talking about Groudon,Kyogre and Mewtwo etc..

What if all of upper OU is composed of fast, incredibly powerful physical sweepers? *coughOnonokusucough* Then Kyogre, with its only "pretty good" HP and Defense, becomes relatively useless. I mean, how are you going to bring it in? How will it kill anything if everything is faster and can O/2HKO it? That's a hypothetical situation (although it might not be too far off from the truth!), but, in that situation, Kyogre could be seen as not powerful enough to be Uber. It's situations like that (although of course less extreme), that make a pokemon Uber. Garchomp, Skymin, and Manaphy are all Uber because they were found to be too powerful in Generation 4 OU. The addition of such incredibly powerful sweepers this generation could, and probably will, significantly change the metagame from Gen 4 OU. Although I personally am pretty sure that Kyogre will be too powerful for OU this gen, the example I gave could apply to almost any Uber pokemon. The point is that everything needs to be tested before automatically decaring it Uber, because battle conditions change every generation. Take a look at this thread to see some excellent reasoning as to why we should test every pokemon before calling some Uber. And as to your argument that each former Uber will check each other and thus make OU Uber, understand that the result of testing will be to find which pokemon are grossly overpowered, and that the grossly overpowered pokemon will be moved to Uber. If everyone only uses Groudon, Kyogre, Arceus, (other Gen 4 Ubers), because otherwise their team would be swept by those pokemon without a sweat, those pokemon are obviously broken and should be made Uber. However, exactly which pokemon will destroy their team depends upon the pokemon present in the current metagame. With all these new pokemon, the pokemon that can sweep/wall your team without breaking a sweat are understandably different from Generation 4. If we don't test every pokemon, and just call some Uber, then we aren't basing our understanding on the actual metagame, but we are simply making assumptions, which does not lead to a balanced metagame. Sure, it's easier to just ban all Gen 4 Ubers, but then we don't really understand why those pokemon are too powerful, and we ultimately lose out on a much more diverse metagame.

 

[Pratty]

I'm all for testing them, but it's really pretty much inevitable Kyogre, Groudon, Mewtwo, Arceus, most Deoxys, etc. will be inevitably broken.

Stuff like Mew, Manaphy, Lati@s, Skymin will be interesting to watch, though. I could see Lati@s returning, Skymin being banned.

 

[DDRMaster]

I think we should allow all the Pokemon in OU in the beginning. We have absolutely no idea what this metagame is going to have in store with all these high stats and great abilities. If some of the legendaries are as broken as you think they are, people will realize it and they'll get banned fairly quickly. An example of this is one of the suspect tests. They let every Pokemon in it that had ever been OU as well as Latios and Manaphy. Deoxys-S was determined to be broken in a few days and it was removed and the same thing will happen to clearly broken legendaries.

 

[Yamaha]

I'm all for Kyrogue and many other Gen 4 ubers being in OU this gen because people obviously will find counters for it. It would be very interesting to let all 649 pokemons battle it out, personally.

 

[Verloren the Lost]

I'm also on the side of starting with everything. Though obviously my lack of appearance here much if at all doesn't say much, I have decided to become active to try and help side with the potential of what this new metagame could be over the old one, instead of setting this meta to match that of Generation 4.

 

[TPM]

I really like the idea of allowing everything in to start, and no matter how I play it out in my head I can't imagine more then a few Pokemon ending too broken to be allowed. And for those people complaining about not wanting to playwith 670+ BST, then just wait til we get usage stats and make a UU tier (which would probably been similar to this Gen's OU).

 

[IcyMan28]

Ideally, I would want the following to happen:

EVERYTHING is thrown together in a free-for-all, with the option of the Speed Boot, similar to what was done in UU with I think Cresselia.

The first week will consists of Cross Thunder, Water Spout, Draco Meteor, Psycho Boosts, and SD Extremespeed ripping everything to shreds on the one hand, while on the other Lugia, Giratina, and Ho-oh utterly refuse to die to anything not named Kyogre. Various Ubers get the boot (though something tells me the more suspect ones, such as SD-Less Lati@s and Speed Deo-E, will remain).

The metagame continues, the suspects are viable in OU, and everyone is happy.

 

[TPM]

The first week will consists of Cross Thunder, Water Spout, Draco Meteor, Psycho Boosts, and SD Extremespeed ripping everything to shreds on the one hand, while on the other Lugia, Giratina, and Ho-oh utterly refuse to die to anything not named Kyogre.

Don't be so sure of all of that, remember the game will change a lot, I don't think Giratina will be sticking around long with dragon attacks of of massive attack stats flying around everywhere, and Kyogre may not be such a demon with a lot of fast Pokemon capable of eating it for breakfast.

 

[IcyMan28]

Don't be so sure of all of that, remember the game will change a lot, I don't think Giratina will be sticking around long with dragon attacks of of massive attack stats flying around everywhere, and Kyogre may not be such a demon with a lot of fast Pokemon capable of eating it for breakfast.

The dragon attacks have been around for a while. Draco Meteor from Ray, Dialga's Outrage, Palkia's Spacial Rend, opposing Gira-O's Draco Meteor...the list goes on.

And lol...few things will be eating Kyogre for breakfast. Specs Hydro Pump is really all that it needs to decimate teams, but we'll see how it goes.

 

[Cathy]

This game just came out less than a day ago, so we don't want to discuss what should be banned or not on this forum. Please refer to Rule #4 in the rules.