The Future of Competitive Battling (UPDATED, PLEASE READ)

[norelationstojfk]

Something other things that've piqued my interest (besides the newmons and politoed and ninetales)

Speed Boost Blaziken - Protect and then sweep. Sounds good in theory.
Technician Breloom - Like Scizor, but with a different type. Mach Punch?
Reckless Staraptor - No recoil on Double Edge sounds nice...
Poison Heal Gliscor - Constant healing, status absorber.
Thick Fat Mamoswine - Fire neutrality and Ice resistance

 

[skullzie]

Yeah, so, these new pokemon look horrible. And when I say horrible, I mean completely overpowered/broken/the average team will probably consist of at least half 5th gen pokemon. I've never looked at a new generation and been anything but excited, until now... I know gamefreak isn't really in touch with competitive pokemon but this is just ridiculous.

 

[Adonzo]

Something other things that've piqued my interest (besides the newmons and politoed and ninetales)

Speed Boost Blaziken - Protect and then sweep. Sounds good in theory.
Technician Breloom - Like Scizor, but with a different type. Mach Punch?
Reckless Staraptor - No recoil on Double Edge sounds nice...
Poison Heal Gliscor - Constant healing, status absorber.
Thick Fat Mamoswine - Fire neutrality and Ice resistance

Reckless doesn't nulify recoil, thats Rock Head. Reckless increases the damage of recoil moves by 20% (and in turn the recoil)

 

[cosmicexplorer]

I agree with Dan Dan in that we should unban everything, or near everything (read this thread to see why), and see what comes up, similar to the BL/UU merge a few months ago. The obviously overpowered pokemon will probably go straight to Uber, while many, many, hours of play will reduce the others to Ubers, OU and UU (NU will probably be figured out later). That way, we will know exactly how good each pokemon is in every tier, and I'm confident that the competitive pokemon community can find out which pokemon belong to which tiers. If all Gen 5 pokemon are found too powerful for standard play (it's not going to happen, but bear with me here), then they will go to Uber. But at least we'll be sure that we've tested everything and haven't needlessly removed a pokemon from standard play.

 

[idkidks]

im making a prediction that shiftry will go up to uu/ou with ninetales having drought,he has cholorophyll,gets stab in dark/grass.

 

[The King of Harts]

Terakion has proven to be my favorite this gen. Two great STABs, big Atk/Spe stats, and apparently Justice Heart is the Dark type version of Herbivore. That means he can come in on Zoroark's NP sweep (just an example), absorb Dark Pulse, force him out because he's faster with Close Combat, and Swords Dance on his way out, effectively giving him +3 attack. That thing will destroy anything and everything that 't isn't faster or has priority.

The best thing about Technician Breloom isn't Mach Punch, but Bullet Seed now that it's been bumped up to 25 BP. Just two hits can potentially KO Blissey after SD and a Life Orb. If he gets 3-5 hits, I don't see much coming in safely, especially with Mach Punch to back him up.

I mentioned this in another thread so I'll just cliff not it: I'm against auto sun/rain simply because it'll ruin all the diversity we can potentially have with the new pokes, attacks, items, and abilities. 95% of teams will be Sun/Rain/Sandstorm/Hail oriented, forcing the other 5% to build teams to deal with those teams. Where's the fun in that?

 

[DDRMaster]

There's something I want to know about Technician Breloom; how are we going to get Bullet Seed on it? Bullet Seed is no longer a TM in BW and while this won't be a problem for Poison Heal Breloom, Breloom can only get Technician from the Dream World. Thus, we can't teach it Bullet Seed unless we can tranfer the TM (unlikely) or somehow put a 4th Gen Breloom into the Dream World to give it Technician.

Of course, Technician boosted Mach Punch is still just as powerful as Scizor's Bullet Punch and might actually be able to cut down on Heatran's usage, assuming it doesn't drop too much.

 

[neato]

since we need to test everything, we need to play the game without sleep clause, ohko clause, and evasion clause.

 

[norelationstojfk]

Reckless doesn't nulify recoil, thats Rock Head. Reckless increases the damage of recoil moves by 20% (and in turn the recoil)

Ah, my mistake. Null to that Staraptor. :)

 

[cosmicexplorer]

since we need to test everything, we need to play the game without sleep clause, ohko clause, and evasion clause.

We should test all new pokemon. Sleep, OHKO, and evasion moves remain the same from previous gens. Although this is being discussed, it will probably not go through. See this thread for information.

 

[Pratty]

I think underrated is Warubiaru, AKA Kaminagater. 95/70/70 is decent defenses, but it gets a good 117 ATK and fairly speedy 92 speed. Ground/Dark gives it great dual STAB, and it gets either of two superb abilities in Intimidate or EarthquakeSpiral. It also learns Earthquake and Crunch naturally, it will be killer if it can learn Pursuit or Stone Edge.

Kurimugan will be an underrated threat, with Encourage + Superpower/Outrage.

Look for Insekuta to be extremely dangerous with mixed attacking stats, Bug/Steel typing and Self Destruct.

 

[Wishy]

I agree with Dan Dan in that we should unban everything, or near everything (read this thread to see why), and see what comes up, similar to the BL/UU merge a few months ago. The obviously overpowered pokemon will probably go straight to Uber, while many, many, hours of play will reduce the others to Ubers, OU and UU (NU will probably be figured out later). That way, we will know exactly how good each pokemon is in every tier, and I'm confident that the competitive pokemon community can find out which pokemon belong to which tiers. If all Gen 5 pokemon are found too powerful for standard play (it's not going to happen, but bear with me here), then they will go to Uber. But at least we'll be sure that we've tested everything and haven't needlessly removed a pokemon from standard play.

I agree with this. Obviously, things like Arceus, Kyorge, etc., (ie, cover legends and their besties) are destined to be uber... Without a doubt. But re-testing Latios and Latias wouldn't be such a bad idea. Same with Shaymin-S, Mew, Garchomp, Salamence, maybe even Darkrai... Hell, maybe even that Dragon/Ice type wont make it into uber (WHO KNOWS). Gen5 delivered a huge surge in power (Seriously, I think the new dragons are Soul Dew less Latios near, if not somewhat close...).

I've never seen a competitive community that loves to ban shit quite like competitive Pokemon lol but then again, that's why everyone uses Cable/Storm/Magneto in MvC2 and everyone forgets the other characters exist.

 

[Alakazamaster]

Seeing all the new Pokemon and their base stats is pretty nice, but I simply adore how Pokemon from older generations got special Dream World abilities. This really shakes up older Pokemon a lot, and it really cleared out some of the abilities that were of really limited use (Pressure and Torrent/Blaze/Overgrow, for example.)

Hell, tons of Pokemon may get completely different playstyles or niches with these new abilities, which I just think is really groovy. I also see weather becoming a larger presence in the metagame, since so many Pokemon got abilities like Swift Swim and Chlorophyll, Flash Fire and Water Absorb, and we finally have Pokemon to set up instant rain and sun.

 

[Firestorm]

I agree with this. Obviously, things like Arceus, Kyorge, etc., (ie, cover legends and their besties) are destined to be uber...

Again, stop assuming any Pokemon will be uber based on past generations. Read the Policy Review discussions on this if you need to.

 

[Jats605]

Zoroark, with 105 ATK, 120 Sp.Atk, and 105 speed is going to own.
Slap an maybe unnecessary 'Scarf on that, and hello Top OU.

 

[Wishy]

Again, stop assuming any Pokemon will be uber based on past generations. Read the Policy Review discussions on this if you need to.

I feel there a lot more people of the notion of going in with a banlist in hand (With Kyorge's name on it) and going in with a Gen4 mindset. Nobody here will really give a damn, in the end, what my opinion is but if it is so chosen by the people who do tiering here to go into gen5 gung-ho with a conglomerate "limbo" tier I feel that's the best option and definitely something I agree with. Most apparently uber will most likely be skimmed off by the first 2~3 weeks and as time goes by the suspects and the standards and the not-so-good will sort themselves out which is prime time to start refining and picking on suspect by suspect and choosing what is really "uber".

My original post, now that I read it, isn't really what I was explicitly thinking. I really am with the notion that "nothing is uber until proven guilty" with this gen... What makes gen5 different to me, is that huge surge in power I mentioned before. 100+ stats were given away with candy, and no other generation has given so many pokemon with such massive offensive stats (Seriously, that dragon is 3 points away from Deoxys' attack stat).

Gamefreak really has delivered with that "we wanted a new gen" slogan pretty well... None of the changes seen so far are as big as Physical/Special split or Special stat split but I feel Gen5 will deliver a bigger shock to competitive than before and really make us redefine our rule sets... Or not, but that's what I think.
tl;dr : i think it would be best to just unban everything and go, because we can't keep recycling old playstyles and tiers from the past.

Oh well.

 

[PI-Dimension]

Here's a little comment I felt I needed to post due to my immense liking to the Pokemon it's about: Kyuremu. It seems that everyone has forgottten about this Pokemon due other Pokemon like Reshiram, Zekrom and Ononokusu being the centre of almost all the attention and Discussion. With base 130 Attack and Special Attack stats, coupled with a base 90 Speed stat and base 90 defensive stats, Kyuremu seems to be in the middle of both OU and Uber. Personally, I really hope it gets into OU but I guess only time can tell what will happen to this Pokemon with its unique typing - Ice/Dragon.

its BST is 660, so it's probably uber

 

[some hero]

Wait, i don't think something like Kyogre or Mewtwo should be allowed in the metagame...If evevry Pokemon is allowed, then OU would simply become like the Uber tier, and something like the Fire/Ghost Pokemon will never be considred "broken" or "too good" if the top 10 most used Pokemon are 650+ BST Legendaries...Might aswell not have an Ubers tier anymore since something like Darkrai will counter pretty much anything that should be considered "Uber" otherwise.

Kyogre,Groudon,Mewtwo,Ho-Oh,Lugia,Rayquaza..Etc should be in Uber because their BST just outclass everything..

Legendaries like Deoxys-D should get another chance though.

 

[Zcythe]

I am pretty happy with Game Freak this time around. I like the whole aproach they took to this gen. I am not worried to much about weather, the new dragons or the fabled SB Blaziken. No, all that I find my self worried about is Shanderaa. I think this thing is a little too uber. It is going to be hell until this thing gets a suspect test. If I am lucky they will give him the "Get out of OU free pass" that they gave to Cressilia in UU.

 

[Random Rider]

Wait, i don't think something like Kyogre or Mewtwo should be allowed in the metagame...If evevry Pokemon is allowed, then OU would simply become like the Uber tier, and something like the Fire/Ghost Pokemon will never be considred "broken" or "too good" if the top 10 most used Pokemon are 650+ BST Legendaries...Might aswell not have an Ubers tier anymore since something like Darkrai will counter pretty much anything that should be considered "Uber" otherwise.

Kyogre,Groudon,Mewtwo,Ho-Oh,Lugia,Rayquaza..Etc should be in Uber because their BST just outclass everything..

Legendaries like Deoxys-D should get another chance though.

That's a bad way of thinking about it IMO, you can't just go into it with the mindset that because something has a 680 BST, it must be too powerful to reasonably deal with using a diverse amount of pokemon. If everything and their mother gets Ice Shard from move tutor, why should Rayquaza be uber? If OU suddenly fills up with a ton of scarfed rock types, why should Ho-Oh be uber? (especially taking 50% from SR, not so broken after all?) BSTs are one of the worst indications of how good a pokemon is. Movepool, ability and typing are far more important, at least IMO. Furthermore, pokemon simply cannot be broken regardless of their fellow competition. No matter how good the traits a pokemon has may seem, its merits depend almost entirely on the type of metagame it is thrown into. That is why many NUs have great uses in ubers, despite being terrible in any other tier.

 

[some hero]

That's a bad way of thinking about it IMO, you can't just go into it with the mindset that because something has a 680 BST, it must be too powerful to reasonably deal with using a diverse amount of pokemon. If everything and their mother gets Ice Shard from move tutor, why should Rayquaza be uber? If OU suddenly fills up with a ton of scarfed rock types, why should Ho-Oh be uber? (especially taking 50% from SR, not so broken after all?) BSTs are one of the worst indications of how good a pokemon is. Movepool, ability and typing are far more important, at least IMO.

I know what you are saying, but if every Pokemon is allowed in OU, there wouldn't be a need for an Uber tier is what i am saying.

Since the most dominant Pokemon will be these monster legendaries, OU in Gen would more or less be like the Uber Tier in Gen 4...Not really sure if i am being clear.

 

[Luf]

I know what you are saying, but if every Pokemon is allowed in OU, there wouldn't be a need for an Uber tier is what i am saying.

Since the most dominant Pokemon will be these monster legendaries, OU in Gen would more or less be like the Uber Tier in Gen 4...Not really sure if i am being clear.

Everything is (should be OU) at the very beginning to find out what actually deserves to be Uber. It's ridiculous to just slap the Uber title on things like Mew, Wobbuffet, and Garchomp without retesting them.

 

[cosmicexplorer]

I know what you are saying, but if every Pokemon is allowed in OU, there wouldn't be a need for an Uber tier is what i am saying.

Since the most dominant Pokemon will be these monster legendaries, OU in Gen would more or less be like the Uber Tier in Gen 4...Not really sure if i am being clear.

The idea of merging everything is to see what's obviously overpowered and will destroy the rest. Once that's clear, the Uber tier will be established and an OU metagame can be created, along with UU/NU after OU/Ubers is sorted out.

 

[Random Rider]

I know what you are saying, but if every Pokemon is allowed in OU, there wouldn't be a need for an Uber tier is what i am saying.

Since the most dominant Pokemon will be these monster legendaries, OU in Gen would more or less be like the Uber Tier in Gen 4...Not really sure if i am being clear.

I edited my post to bring my point across more at the end. The problem with ubers in gen.4 is that the pokemon on top are so powerful that they cannot reasonably be dealt with by more average pokemon like Gyarados. However, there may end up being a metagame where most of the top threats are completely countered by a large number of pokemon. Therefore, Gyarados could come in and tear up a lot of teams that were too scared of all those counters to use those more powerful pokemon. The only 3 pokemon I could not possibly imagine being not broken in any metagame are Kyogre, Groudon and Arceus.

 

[some hero]

Everything is (should be OU) at the very beginning to find out what actually deserves to be Uber. It's ridiculous to just slap the Uber title on things like Mew, Wobbuffet, and Garchomp without retesting them.

Well, i know that, my previous post made that clear.

I am saying not everything should be allowed to be in OU.Pokemon like Mewto,Lugia and Dialga.

If every Pokemon is allowed in OU, there won't be a need for an Ubers tier.Because nothing will be broken anymore.

The Top Ten Pokemon will be those monster Legendaries...My point is that if those Legendaries are allowed in OU, there will never be an Uber Tier.

I am not talking about Garchomp,Deoxys-D,Manaphy,Shamin-S...I am talking about Groudon,Kyogre and Mewtwo etc..

I edited my post to bring my point across more at the end. The problem with ubers in gen.4 is that the pokemon on top are so powerful that they cannot reasonably be dealt with by more average pokemon like Gyarados. However, there may end up being a metagame where most of the top threats are completely countered by a large number of pokemon. Therefore, Gyarados could come in and tear up a lot of teams that were too scared of all those counters to use those more powerful pokemon. The only 3 pokemon I could not possibly imagine being not broken in any metagame are Kyogre, Groudon and Arceus.

If all the Pokemon are allowed in OU, Kyogre and Groudon would not be sent to Ubers because their counters would also be OU(Latios/Latias/Shaymin-S), so there would not be a need for an Uber tier..