Team preview discussion;

[Es.Rayky]

I don't understand this post. You say that teams used to always have a lead without team preview, then you say team preview is too predictable. Wouldn't teams not using the same type of Pokemon be less predictable?

I meant we had lead before, now no which is bad. Then i said that with team preview, it's too predictable. Eg: You have SD Lucario Core in gen 4. You see your opp's team and know that he/she has a Gliscor so you could plan to lure it easier. Or you have Explosioner, you'll feel free to BOOM if you know that your opp's team doesn't have ghost/steel etc. And Look-in a team, may be you could know that is a Stall-team/Hail Team/Sand Team/Baton Pass team which means you could plan to beat it easier than before. And, If you see Magnezone/Dugtrio on your opp's team, you could double switch to avoid being trapped easier than before, and you'll be free if they don't have. The last one, if you see a poison pokemon on your opp's team, you won't toxic spikes before beat it.

Just nit-picking really, but how can it be "easier to win" with team preview? There's still 2 players, so they both have a 50% chance of winning, on average. If it's easier for you to win with team preview, it's easier for the opponent to win, as he also gets team preview. So it balances out.

It's not about winning or losing. It makes the metagame more boring.

 

[Miao]

I like using teams like this, I usually use Drizzletoed/Starmie/Whimsicott alongside Droughtales/Darmanitan/Jumpluff in Triples - and I can imagine a SS/Hail team working, since they share Reuniclus at least. The bad thing is opposing weather teams - full/half Hail or Rain beats your mini-Sandstorm team, while full/half Sun or Sandstorm (Rock attacks) beats your mini-Hail team. I suppose that your Sandstorm half can beat opposing Hail, but it depends on the teams really.

Since it's flat battle, and because of team preview, you can choose the half that should win. Naturally, if you end up against another person who's using a half team , it's trouble.

vs sandstorm you'd use Rain or your own sandstorm (if it's Hail / Sand). Against rain you go sun (yay for grass sweepers!) or just match them and outplay them.

Let's not forget that team preview was added because it's now standard ingame. Leads arn't dead either, just you can choose something else if you know your current lead isn't a good match. You can also bluff and keep your lead in another team slot, messing up who they choose to put first.

In random matches (Flat battle) team preview is necessary so you can shore up weaknesses either defensively or offensively.

It's not about winning or losing. It makes the metagame more boring.

How is it more dull? It forces you to think more, instead of risking yourself to random chance of being swept. You know they have "big nasty thing" or "bad trapper thing" and it gives you a chance to prepare. Last gen, without preview, Wobbafet for example was a guaranteed kill, every game. This time you're wary if you see it, and know to be careful with your wobbafet bait.

 

[internet]

can you choose to not team preview in-game?

 

[Miao]

can you choose to not team preview in-game?

It's absent in infrared I believe.

 

[zarator]

I like how people are throwing out "fun", "boring" and other definitions as if they were absolute. Well, they're not. Aside from the fact that team preview is a part of the game as much as physical/special split is, it neither adds nor subtracts from the game. It simply caused a shift in the set of skills required. And obviously, just like the addition of a Pokémon in UU could make the game more or less boring for someone simply because their playing style doesn't suit well to the new entry, people who liked the bait-kill method and hyper offense teams will be pissed off by this change. Well, you must realize this point of view is not the only one. There are a lot of people, like me, who enjoy the fact I can plan the game from the beginning, trying to glance the strategy the opponent is using and making my own calcs on what to use and what to sacrifice.

Plus, stop acting as if Team Preview was basically an "export to text" thrown at you from the opponent. It's not. Although seeing a Volcarona may tell me everything I need to know about how to deal with it, seeing a Garchomp, a Tyranitar, a Rotom-W, a Scizor, and a lot other Pokémon tells me much less than you would think. Examples:

• Ok, he switched his Scizor into my Ferrothorn. Probably he may Swords Dance, hence I should go to my Rotom-W. But what if he's Banded and U-turns? I would simply take massive damage to the point I can't tank Bullet Punches anymore. Maybe I should switch in my Gliscor. But, what if he's a bulky Swords Dancer? (assume I don't have Taunt on Gliscor).
• I have Tyranitar out and he sends in Garchomp. Well, maybe he's a Choiced Variant and he's going to use Earthquake, so I should switch to my Rotom. But what if he eats an Outrage? Maybe Ferrothorn is a safer switch-in. Damn, what if he Substitutes? I won't ever break those Subs with Power Whip since Sandstorm is up. I could sacrifice Tar, but how will I deal with his Reuniclus after?

I could make more examples but I think you got what I'm trying to say. Even with team preview, the amount of mind games and choices involved is incredible. Moreover, you know the opponent knows about all these reasonings, since he saw your team at the start. Now, you can claim you preferred like it was before, and that's perfectly legit. But don't pretend Team Preview involves no skill.

 

[133k]

Maybe since I played PBR Random Online matches almost daily, I've come to enjoy team preview. I don't understand why people hate it so much... I don't see how predicting (guessing) a switch into 1 of ~200 usable Pokemon counts as a "skill", unless you've scouted their entire team...

 

[Virizion]

Since it's flat battle, and because of team preview, you can choose the half that should win. Naturally, if you end up against another person who's using a half team , it's trouble.

vs sandstorm you'd use Rain or your own sandstorm (if it's Hail / Sand). Against rain you go sun (yay for grass sweepers!) or just match them and outplay them.

Let's not forget that team preview was added because it's now standard ingame. Leads arn't dead either, just you can choose something else if you know your current lead isn't a good match. You can also bluff and keep your lead in another team slot, messing up who they choose to put first.

In random matches (Flat battle) team preview is necessary so you can shore up weaknesses either defensively or offensively.



How is it more dull? It forces you to think more, instead of risking yourself to random chance of being swept. You know they have "big nasty thing" or "bad trapper thing" and it gives you a chance to prepare. Last gen, without preview, Wobbafet for example was a guaranteed kill, every game. This time you're wary if you see it, and know to be careful with your wobbafet bait.

I meant Triples - you have to use all 6 of your Pokémon. If their weather stays up, then you either: lose half of your team, or somehow keep your weather up and kill 6 opposing Pokémon that have type advantage against half of your team.

 

[Glen ^^]

Team Preview is the best thing addition to gen 5 imo.

Now people don't win by just running standard cookie butter sets, keeping their best sweepers unrevealed until the end (Garchomp, Salamence in gen 4 anyone?), or having to counter their Pokemon that was supposed to counter your counter to their lead.

Much better than deciding games on "who forces the opponent on exposing their key player first".

 

[AJC]

much worse imo because i want stuff that should be broken be broken and banned without TP than allowed because one can *try* (yeah right) to counter/check it because it's showed you have it.

just because you have counter/checks doesn't mean it's not broken (case in point garchomp)


i prefer a game where your always on edge than the relaxed thinking that is going about because of the lax nature people are getting because of Team preview.

i want a game decided on actual playing than how well your team beats the other guy revealed team.

 

[133k]

i want a game decided on actual playing than how well your team beats the other guy revealed team.

I know I'm not the only one who thinks this, but I don't consider blind guessing as "playing".

 

[rtc3]

i want a game decided on actual playing than how well your team beats the other guy revealed team.

...Dude. With tp you pm have to play at a higher level because you have to consider your opponent will be gameplanning too right from the start. Tp promotes battling skill, which means battles do become "decided on actual playing."

Also what do you mean by "how well your team beats the other guy revealed team"? Good/bad team match ups will always exist even without tp.

 

[SMZ]

Personally I'm fine with it, sure it's a change and some strategies that some people used that depend on surprise factor in a key role, or some kind of baits..etc, but IMO team preview gives you a nice calculated INITIAL thought of the other player's team, at least to a surface level, but this isn't enough to analyze-break the team; you still have to think through the game, and many Pokemon can have different sets and strategies with others.

 

[Es.Rayky]

It's not blind guessing, Have you ever watched Earthworm's battles? You think he's blind guessing. You know how to win before play lol?

How is it more dull? It forces you to think more, instead of risking yourself to random chance of being swept. You know they have "big nasty thing" or "bad trapper thing" and it gives you a chance to prepare. Last gen, without preview, Wobbafet for example was a guaranteed kill, every game. This time you're wary if you see it, and know to be careful with your wobbafet bait.

OK, have you ever seen earthworm double switch? With team preview, i can do it lol. I don't need to prepare for any trap, Wobb has his special ability, let him use it, that why he was Uber.
And the games will be at a higher level without it because you don't know anything, you have to scout, have to switch and have to think more. Some People said that it needs more skills than before, i don't think so. An Easy Example, You have a free turn on Gyarados, Switch-in Scarf Close Combat Infernape for example, normally, I'll set up Dragon Dance immediately, but i know he/she has Rotom-w from the start so i just switch away for advantage. Well, that's too easy.
And I hate waiting for some timid players, some spend 2 min "reading" my team...

 

[133k]

It's not blind guessing, Have you ever watched Earthworm's battles? You think he's blind guessing. You know how to win before play lol?

OK, have you ever seen earthworm double switch? With team preview, i can do it lol. I don't need to prepare for any trap, Wobb has his special ability, let him use it, that why he was Uber.
And the games will be at a higher level without it because you don't know anything, you have to scout, have to switch and have to think more. Some People said that it needs more skills than before, i don't think so. An Easy Example, You have a free turn on Gyarados, Switch-in Scarf Close Combat Infernape for example, normally, I'll set up Dragon Dance immediately, but i know he/she has Rotom-w from the start so i just switch away for advantage. Well, that's too easy.
And I hate waiting for some timid players, some spend 2 min "reading" my team...

It might just be me, but I didn't really understand any of what you just said...

 

[Darkartisan]

Without TP, Genesect, Latias, etc would all be banned. I wish we could vote on keeping it, imo it ruins the game :(

 

[Azure Demon]

Without TP, Genesect, Latias, etc would all be banned. I wish we could vote on keeping it, imo it ruins the game :(

So you are saying that just knowing some threats are coming allows you manage your team better and better check pokemon that should be uber? Sounds like a bonus to me.

Team preview makes it less about who has the better team and more about who can manage their team better. In my opinion it has mad the game a lot better and the quality of the battles better as well.

Sure the surprise factor in gen 4 was fun as hell and I admit I will never stop playing 4th gen EVAAAAA but as a whole Team Preview helps a lot.

I think it is funny that when gen 5 was released last year I was talking just like you, but now I see things in a different light.

 

[jas61292]

Personally I am indifferent to it. I kinda like it, because it gets rid of the whole lead style which I never really loved. It also allows for huge mind games. When people first found out about it, they were originally talking about how it ruins Zoroark's usefulness, but personally, using things like that to make your opponent second guess themselves can be even more valuable than them not knowing anything.

However, I also do plenty of IR battles without TP, so I know what that is like in fifth gen as well. Both styles are fun for me, and I like them both. Neither is better or worse, they just require different skill sets.

 

[Galactic Boss Cyrus]

...voila. No more indecision!

Can I nominate this for Post of the Year or something?

On topic: It's like Game Freak said, "Oh shit! Zoroark might be good! How can we make it suck?"

 

[jas61292]

On topic: It's like Game Freak said, "Oh shit! Zoroark might be good! How can we make it suck?"

I disagree, it still is really good. Its just not the noob friendly goodness that everyone was expecting. You need to play mind games. You can't just try and send it in randomly. However, for the most experienced Zoroark users, TP may just be an advantage, as it will cause your opponent to second guess themselves.

 

[Ace Emerald]

Why is there more discussion on team preview? It's part of the game and here to stay, might as well get used to it.

 

[Darkartisan]

After playing with it for a whole day, I hate it with a passion. This will be completely one-sided, but for good reason. The way that I see it, team preview just shows how overcentralized and standard the Gen. 5 metagame has become through team preview. I have written down my opponent's teams before each and every game today. If my opponent carried a Gliscor (which my team has a slight weakness to) and my check dies, I quit. If I can beat it, i know I have the game in the bag, and relax. It's all about not even having a form of adrenalin based excitement through the game. Why should I relax when I have 2 pokemon left and my opponent has 4 (my Conkeldurr vs 4 fighting weak pokemon). That's really lame. Also, most of the time the opponent doesn't even switch the lead, so it's not as if you're playing chess before the game starts. The teams look so assymetrical that it's just lame. Team preview DEFINATELY ruins this game. :(

I'm sure I could also get some agreement on these banned as well;
"Hax" Thunder Wave Serene Grace Iron Head Jirachi
"Hax" Thunder Wave Air Slash Togekiss
Genesect in OU
Sand Veil/Snow Cloak
Rotom W being electric/water...is that a glitch?!
Balloon
Multiple hitting attacks (Bullet seed, Double chop, etc).

 

[Es.Rayky]

I disagree, it still is really good. Its just not the noob friendly goodness that everyone was expecting. You need to play mind games. You can't just try and send it in randomly. However, for the most experienced Zoroark users, TP may just be an advantage, as it will cause your opponent to second guess themselves.

It'll be better without Team Preview. Because your opponent can see your whole team, can see your Zoroark and can see the others pokemon that would be transformed by Zoroark so your opponent can predict easier. Without it, your opponent will never know when will Zoroark come (without Hazard helps)

 

[JSND]

I will not play gen 5 if its not for preview.

Seriously it is what keeping crazy things in check right now(stare at Tornadus while he fuck my ass killed my poke spam Draco meteor "Gale" and eats cake without even doing it)

 

[Darkartisan]

I will not play gen 5 if its not for preview.

Seriously it is what keeping crazy things in check right now(stare at Tornadus while he fuck my ass killed my poke spam Draco meteor "Gale" and eats cake without even doing it)

Ok, but that's not what team preview's supposed to be used for, so that just shows how flawed the logic behind it is, at least, the way people are viewing it. Anything OP should be banned, it's that simple. Tornadus and co are pretty sick, i'd consider them all suspect.

 

[JSND]

Ban them all and having 45 + Banned poke ?

hell no.

ANd thats just some little things i like about it.
I like it for couple of reason with that being the least