CAP 3 CAP 3 - Part 3 (New Evolution/New Pokemon Discussion)

[latinoheat]

Give it around 80-90 and give it swords dance(sunflora has this) then it has both options.

Sunny Day+Fire Punch+ 85 max att(adament) 2hkos blissey and skarm.

 

[Master of the Six Kings]

New Species!

I love the idea of a Cherrim evo (i've always liked Cherrim XD) I want to see a panda/red panda Pokemon more.

 

[Deucalion2]

Its 34 New, 21 Evo, currently.

 

[chronostrike]

Hippowdon can't tank either. Who would ever send out something with grass knot, surf, and ice beam weaks to absorb hits?
----
Note the weaknesses on this typing
flying- one viable special move: air slash
poison- not much used, one viable special move: sludge bomb
rock- two (maybe) viable special moves: power gem, ancient power

Remove Togekiss, and no SAtkers in the current metagame are all that dangerous to this typing, granted we give it fair HP and SDef.

 

[gorm]

Hippowdon can't tank either. Who would ever send out something with grass knot, surf, and ice beam weaks to absorb hits?

are you serious lol

 

[latinoheat]

this is why it should have been a sunflora evolution, like chrono said this typing has barely any problems on the special side defensively.

Sunflora has 75 hp/85 spe def even just adding 10 to the bast stats(85/95) makes its more then good enough to take a few weaker neutral hits and laugh at just about everything it resists.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

forgetting about Onix -> Steelix. Onix's primary typing is Rock, and Steelix's primary typing is Steel. Also, note the eeveelutions; just because they are mono-type does NOT mean the primary type was not changed. Please do not spread false information.

I haven't forgotten Steelix or the eeveelutions I just didn't count the eeveelutions towards the discussion because their split evolutions. Steelix/Onix bit is the one I noticed and is aware of since I actually did mention it on the other thread.

 

[Mekkah]

I actually like the idea of this guy being offensively balanced. I would really love to see a flare blitz/wood hammer set.

But...pretty much every Fire type so far is great at both attacking stats, or at least remotely equal (Camerupt, Arcanine, Typhlosion, Charizard, Infernape, Blaziken, need I go on?). And nearly every Grass type has about equal attacking stats too: Shaymin, Celebi, Meganium, Venusaur, Vileplume, Victreebel, etc. What I'm saying is, if you're looking for diversity on this Fire/Grass thing, making it equally capable on both offensive ends is the opposite way to go.

 

[JimBob]

if you guys really are thinking like "the process of creating the Pokemon is the goal, the pokemon that come out are just byproducts", then I don't understand why you would want to create a new Pokemon. All you could do is increase the base stats and give it a new move or two, and you're done. That's why I'm gonna vote new pokemon because that way we'll actually have things to discuss besides the sprite.

 

[flygon493]

New Species. I want more creativity, with an evo of an existing poke, we lose a lot of it.

 

[User 12783]

I suggest a New Pokemon, because this Pokemon is Fire/Grass not Grass/Fire!!

 

[X-Act]

It seems like the people who want a New Species are saying so because it's more creative and it's more discussion-worthy. That means that we will never create an evolution of an existing Pokemon, ever, because it will always be less creative to do so. :(

 

[JimBob]

well yeah that's actually my point. If ya'll find some type that will be "good" to make an evolution from, we'll probably be outvoted, but you're really going to have to make a convincing argument to get me to vote for an evolution of an existing Pokemon.

 

[chaos]

evolution of sunflora, please. two new species have been made already :/

 

[eric the espeon]

I think I would like to see a evolution of an existing pokemon for a change, this is a brilliant type for it (sunflora, cherrim) and it would be interesting to see how it goes.

However new pokemon is fine, its just that we have done 2 already and I dont want to get stuck in a rut.

Edit
Scores are:
New 37
Evo 23

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

It seems like the people who want a New Species are saying so because it's more creative and it's more discussion-worthy. That means that we will never create an evolution of an existing Pokemon, ever, because it will always be less creative to do so. :(

To be fair, there is plenty of creativity within making a evolution of an existing Pokemon both in design, stats, and movepool. It's just not enough to make most people around here to go with your vision.

 

[Dane]

Probably also has to do with the options available to evolve. The only one that I'd not mind evolving with this typing is Carnivine, and while I can see Sunflora evolving into this typing it's already a stone evolved Pokemon. Unless we wanted to break every convention set forth for four generations, a stone evolution would be the end of the line.

 

[Masamune]

evo.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

While I'm on the topic of how an evolution on a pre-existing pokemon isn't as resisted as one would think, I like to address certain Pokemon design odd-balls to show they you can have a creatively cool looking pokemon

to

I don't think aquatic serpentine looking dragon are suppose to look Barney's bastard child when grown up.

to

or

Clam to Moray Eel....didn't see that one coming the first time I heard of them.

to

Honestly, who believe a pelican was a worthy animal for a seagull should evolve? I would expect an more detailed seagull, frigate bird(certain extent) or even an albatross but a pelican?

 

[MegaBuddha]

evolution of an existing Pokemon

 

[Aki]

A Pokemon's usability is practically guaranteed to increase from the result of this project,
Agreed.
and I have a feeling I will like a Sunflora evolution with decent typing and decent abilities more than I currently like Sunflora.
Coming back to my main point, that's all good and well, but it limits us in our creativity. We can always just have Sunflower based submissions in the art poll. At this stage, it really limits us. Limits our BS, BST, Movepool, Egg moves, Ability (To an extent, see rhyperior). Another good point that has been brought up is that Nintendo/GF May decide to make Evo's of those pokemon later on, sans the many that were done in D/P.

Fire types that could possibly get an evolution could include Arcanine (although I probably wouldn't change its base stats too much)
Then why bother evolving it?
Rapidash, Ponyta (alternate evolution), Growlithe (alternate evolution), Vulpix (alternate evolution), Torkoal, Magmar (alternate evolution - although this would probably mean we would need something else coming from Electabuzz too), Slugma (alternate evolution) and Magby.
You've got alternate Evo's coming outta your ears =S I don't see how Torkoal evolves into a Grass type anyway, but that's just me.

I think that your limited movepool (I assume this is what you intended, not moveset)
Movepool is everything something can learn, and that's where you draw the moveset from.
ability and base stats related statements are somewhat true however. That doesn't mean I am changing my vote! Perhaps we could have some sort of vote to make Grass the primary type now that we have the Fire and Grass types together established (someone suggested this in the other thread, which is also where I got that primary typing thing from).

We really can break the mold and just switch the typings around if you really wanted to. It's not gona make a big difference on the competitive aspect is it? =p

I can say that i'd like to see Evo's of some or all of the pokemon you've listed. However, that would limit us in our scope of everything hereon in, and that takes us from the CAP Project to the Upgrade project, and the biggest drawer for the CAP IMO is the Freedom it gives us to improve the metagame.

 

[Dane]

We really can break the mold and just switch the typings around if you really wanted to. It's not gona make a big difference on the competitive aspect is it? =p

Competitively, no. But in the creation process, it can. The main type usually has the stronger, better, or more plentiful moves. It also generally has a higher impact on the design of the Pokemon.

Due to this, switching the typing does matter. Especially since if you think about it, switching the types around to Grass/Fire would essentially mean those that voted for a Fire Primary Pokemon would instead be getting Grass, with a secondary of Fire.

Oh, another reason to stick with new species for this go through, since this is the first CAP with a refined process, having freedom to make a new species makes sense. I'd be all up for evolving a Pokemon next time, especially some sort of Electric or Poison (since those seemed to be the next in line for the thrown).

 

[ddm4377]

How about an evolution. mabye a branch from skiploom?

 

[CardsOfTheHeart]

Yeah, like I said earlier, the typing would have to be Grass/Fire for me to support an evolution. Now that I think about it, an alternate Sunkern evo would be more consistent than a Sunflora evo.

 

[FMC20]

I want a new pokemon. Why? The typing. That is honestly my one problem with this idea. Even if I squint or rack my brain I don't understand how a cherry becomes a Fire/Grass. Sunflora is a stone evolution so therfore it learns no new moves after evolution. This only leaves Carnivine which I really don't think deserves to have a Fire/Grass evolution. Honestly would GF or Nintendo ever make a Fire/Grass Carnivine evolution?

For these reasons I voted new pokemon. Even so I would really hate to see this become a panda. Seriously the best thing that can be thought of is a panda!? Fire/Grass allows many good, creative options other than the obvious Panda/Lion/Tiger/Lizard offers. (Lizard wouldn't be to bad actualy but we already have Sceptile.)