CAP 3 CAP 3 - Part 3 (New Evolution/New Pokemon Discussion)

[Fishin]

The whole "Nintendo might not accept new evolutions" doesn't seem to really be much of an argument point. In the "What is the Create-A-Pokémon Project?" announcement for this forum, it doesn't say anything about submitting Pokemon to Nintendo. As quoted from the first sentence: The Create-A-Pokémon project is a community dedicated to exploring and understanding the competitive Pokémon metagame by designing, creating, and playtesting new Pokémon concepts. In fact, Nintendo isn't even mentioned.

Even if we did submit our Pokemon to Nintendo, I'm certain that one being a new evolution of an existing Pokemon would be the least of our worries as far as acceptance goes.

I wouldn't say that a new evolution is really limiting, either (certainly not as much as everyone seems to think it is). As Gothic Togekiss just pointed out, some evolutions end up branching way off from their original forms; we've still got plenty of creative room to expand into. The only real limits we're working with by evolving an existing pokemon (especially since there are multiple pokemon we're considering evolving) is that the Pokemon will have to have the movepool of the pre-evo contained within its own and the fact that egg moves are already locked in.

 

[Blu]

Yeah, like I said earlier, the typing would have to be Grass/Fire for me to support an evolution. Now that I think about it, an alternate Sunkern evo would be more consistent than a Sunflora evo.

yes, yes an alternate evo that evolves from fire stone

now that's an idea

 

[beej]

Going with evolution of an existing pokemon. Syclant and Revenankh were new pokemon, and I don't want to keep doing that forever. Besides, I like the idea of making something like Sunflora or Cherrim usable. Leaning towards Cherrim, by the way...

 

[Dane]

Why do people want to evolve a hippy flower or a grapefruit tulip? Come on, this is a Fire/Grass Pokemon, it should either look majestic or fearsome. Flowers are neither, they are in fact spawns of Satan that bring misery while looking bright.

 

[Helios]

For all those people who think this will 'Stifle the creativity' of the project, consider some pokemon who look absolutely nothing like their pre-evos, e.g. Breloom, Froslass, Masquerain, etc. Then consider all the pokemon who have their stats changed around e.g. Poliwrath, Magmortar, etc.

I personally doubt nintendo will evolve sunflora, cherrim or Carnivine any time soon, since it's only evolved one pokemon who's already evolved using an item (and that was Porygon2), Cherrim is a pokemon along the same line as Castform and Carnivine... Personally, I believe Lapras is more likely to get a pre-evo or something, than Carnivine is to get an evo.

ALSO, we're considering some pokemon who have jack all for move sets, Sunflora learns absolutely nothing of consequence besides grass whistle, leech seed, swords dance and the screens (none of which it can use). Carnivine has double powder, leech seed and swords dance (better). Cherrim gets aroma and grass whilstle, that's it. They also don't have any type of offensive move pool. None of them have mentionable defenses OR speeds.

EDIT: AlSO, could we make something about carnivine to make it NOT a flytrap; we already HAD a fly trap.

Just a few things to think about...

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

For a Flaming Carnivine evo, have about we add another jaw structure over his original head, give it flames on it's back and "elbows" and roots for legs. I can picture it somwhat looking like those Soldier Heartless with the helmet thing, but flaming. I would explain more when I work out the details and probably when the time truly does come.

If you're also wondering what I vote for, I'm actually would say neither since I'm flexible like that.

 

[Dane]

Eh, like I said, I'm okay with a Carnivine evolution, but not the others. I would still prefer a new Pokemon, but if it MUST be an evolution, he's the one I'd go with.

 

[1059860]

new species

 

[Matzrim Taim]

I vote new species, since the suggested pre-evo pokes sound like they would simply turn into something that looks like a fan-boy creation, not a carefully planned Pokemon created by Smogon. The art for Syclant and Revenankh was awsome, and both were entirely new species.

 

[Blln]

voting new species because I don't like the idea of having to find a pokemon that fits the typing. I think if we want to make an evo of an existing pokemon we need to choose what it is first, and then choose the typing that truly fits it best Anyway, I think making an evolution to an already existing pokemon would be extremely limiting - you can't choose ability, movepool, or even really the base stats, so yeah new pokemon all the way

 

[Erik]

Sorry guys, but Sunflora already used a Stone Evolution. It's pretty much done unless you want to violate every precedent set in pokemon.

Porygon evolves with items both times. You don't need to use a stone, it could be an alternate to Sunkern to where you level it up somewhere or trade it with some gasoline or something.

I have been lurking through the CAP topics for quite sometime and very much enjoy the discussion. I could personally see this swinging both ways but, being that it is a primary fire type, the only one I could see possibly going from Fire to Fire/Grass of the current pokes is Magmar and since he has a new evo that makes him looking like a chunky fire gorilla, I vote new species.

Although, Sunflora's abilities are exactly what I would think you would want on a Fire/Grass...

 

[Chaoscrippler]

Evolution of an existing pokemon.

It'll be fun creating an evo for a change, instead of a new Pokemon. But hell, if we end up creatating yet another new Pokemon, chili pepper chili pepper chili pepper chili pepper chili pepper chili pepper chili pepper

 

[Not Scicky]

Everyone needs to remember that not only does a Evolution restrict our Moveset and Ability Options AND Base stat options, Everything is already sorted into Competitive play. Just because somthing's UU Dosen't mean that it dosen't exist. If you like something, use it.

^

New Pokemon or Alternate evo of weepinbel that uses sun stone or fire stone

 

[Aki]

For all those people who think this will 'Stifle the creativity' of the project, consider some pokemon who look absolutely nothing like their pre-evos, e.g. Breloom, Froslass, Masquerain, etc. Then consider all the pokemon who have their stats changed around e.g. Poliwrath, Magmortar, etc.

They must look somthing like their Pre-evo's, otherwise there would be widespread confusion. In regards to the BS being changed around, again, they must STILL look something like their Pre-Evos. This still limits the scope of out creativity.

I personally doubt nintendo will evolve sunflora, cherrim or Carnivine any time soon, since it's only evolved one pokemon who's already evolved using an item (and that was Porygon2), Cherrim is a pokemon along the same line as Castform and Carnivine... Personally, I believe Lapras is more likely to get a pre-evo or something, than Carnivine is to get an evo.

Agreed, although we arn't the "Fill in the gaps Project", We're the "Make pokemon suited to the Metagame Project".

ALSO, we're considering some pokemon who have jack all for move sets, Sunflora learns absolutely nothing of consequence besides grass whistle, leech seed, swords dance and the screens (none of which it can use). Carnivine has double powder, leech seed and swords dance (better). Cherrim gets aroma and grass whilstle, that's it. They also don't have any type of offensive move pool. None of them have mentionable defenses OR speeds.

Also agreed. The reason things are as bad as they are is because of Bad movepools and/or Bad BST/BS. We cannot make Sunflora OU Viable without overhauling it's BST, BS and movepool so much we'd end up with a new pokemon anyway =\

EDIT: AlSO, could we make something about carnivine to make it NOT a flytrap; we already HAD a fly trap.

Just a few things to think about...

The whole "Nintendo might not accept new evolutions" doesn't seem to really be much of an argument point. In the "What is the Create-A-Pokémon Project?" announcement for this forum, it doesn't say anything about submitting Pokemon to Nintendo. As quoted from the first sentence: The Create-A-Pokémon project is a community dedicated to exploring and understanding the competitive Pokémon metagame by designing, creating, and playtesting new Pokémon concepts. In fact, Nintendo isn't even mentioned.

We are not submitting this to Nintendo. In fact, you've completly overshot the issue. Nintendo may release Evo's for pokemon in the future, so it wouldn't be a good idea to mix them up with CAPs. Anyway, this isn't a main point to argue with...

Even if we did submit our Pokemon to Nintendo, I'm certain that one being a new evolution of an existing Pokemon would be the least of our worries as far as acceptance goes.

See ^^.

I wouldn't say that a new evolution is really limiting, either (certainly not as much as everyone seems to think it is). As Gothic Togekiss just pointed out, some evolutions end up branching way off from their original forms;
Find something that branches Wayyyy off it's Pre-evo and i'll revoke my statement; Everything has a recognisable resemblence to it's Pre-evo.
we've still got plenty of creative room to expand into.
We dont.
The only real limits we're working with by evolving an existing pokemon (especially since there are multiple pokemon we're considering evolving) is that the Pokemon will have to have the movepool of the pre-evo contained within its own and the fact that egg moves are already locked in.
Which is contradicting yourself because it still locks our creativity. Movepool + Egg moves + Ability + Base Stats + Typing = Viability.
This limits our Viability scope by removing Movepool, Base stats, and Egg moves. Ability is debatable. The typing is fine.

To re-cap, we absolutly cannot make a Pre-evo without limiting our creativity.

 

[Hyra]

/vote New Species

although I'm not opposed to a Carnivine evo, not very many existing Pokemon fit the Fire/Grass mold.

 

[Azacin]

New Speciees, I want something new and refreshing.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

I want something new and refreshing.

Excluding Scylant and Revenankh?

Aki~ Did my post on certain pokemon evolving to look nothing like their pre-evo form meant nothing to you?

 

[Luck]

^

New Pokemon or Alternate evo of weepinbel that uses sun stone or fire stone

Stop wasting your vote.When the person is count your voting he can't do yours because you did not pick anything.It is not that hard pick one or the other.

 

[Rhykune]

I haven't decided yet, a Sunflora evo would be cool, but then we'd have to stick with a similar stat layout which isn't the great... You know what, I'm going to vote for NEW POKEMON.

 

[Marker]

New species, let's not stifle the creativity this typing provides.

 

[espeonescape]

I'm voting new evolution because there are so many grass types that could use an evolution and are clearly not good enough, but I guess a new species would also be fun.

 

[Meta_ridley]

New Species.

gimme mah Fire/Grass monstrosity!

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

Its 47 New, 29 Evo, currently.

 

[Sunday]

Flowers are neither, they are in fact spawns of Satan that bring misery while looking bright.

I see the pollen hasn't been kind to you this year Dane.

;D

 

[Erik]

ALSO, we're considering some pokemon who have jack all for move sets, Sunflora learns absolutely nothing of consequence besides grass whistle, leech seed, swords dance and the screens (none of which it can use). Carnivine has double powder, leech seed and swords dance (better). Cherrim gets aroma and grass whilstle, that's it. They also don't have any type of offensive move pool. None of them have mentionable defenses OR speeds.

Uh, what about Cherrim's ability? It's not exactly bad...